What speaker? Hello can of worms. If you are spending 20k on speakers I pray that you go listen first. That's a lot of money and there are some nice choices. It all depend on your tastes, the way you hear, your room, gear etc..
My personal is Vandersteen. You can buy a new pair of Quatro CT's and get the latest updates etc... Nearly everyone I've steered in this direction has been MORE than happy. As you probably know it has tunable bass so it interacts with most any room extremely well. I use the Treo's and am putting them up for sale as I want the Quatro tunable bass.
Unless you could find a pair of used 5CT's from Richard, I'd just go get a pair of Quatro's and use the extra to buy music or upgrade your amp or music server (Melco is a wonderful server/NAS that's easy to use and sounds pretty awesome). I'd also get a double pair or AudioQuest Castlerock speaker cables and do a true bi wired run. You'll be very very pleased you did and you are still probably under your 20k.
BTW, Vandersteens sound best with a zero feedback amp like all the Ayre products. They also are awesome with anything Audio Research or Aesthetix if you are into tubes.
Where do you live? I'm sure there are stores near by to go audition. |
Nola's are very nice speakers. Bass, go check out the Vandersteen line. If you like NOLA, then you will probably like Vandersteen too. Lot's of cross over between the two.
Map, just because you can put expensive off the shelf parts together, doesn't mean you can make a great speaker that can honestly compete with these companies that have massive R&D behind them. If you were to say that you make one speaker in that price range that you'd worked on for years and you keep upgrading it, I think I'd have more faith in what you are saying. Are you a manufacturer who does this as his sold living or a hobby guy just posting on the board to drum up business? Just curious more than anything.
I agree with bass dude when he says at that price point, I'd stick with a big name speaker as there is no way you can ever recoup your money if you are not happy. I've bought and sold for many many years and nothing has change in regards to selling used gear. Big name depreciate much much less and sell much easier (since folks recognize their names) than off brands or smaller companies. That's fact and when you are using 20 to 30k, that's a lot of money to most folks. Take the top 5 speaker designers. They all make different sounding speakers and they make different trade offs. There is a reason that most speakers in this price range have heavily modified or house built drivers etc... Many enclosures are made with exotic materials as they do work better than wood or MDF etc... when used correctly. JMHO |
Marty, honest question if I may. I was speaking with a friend two weeks ago about an MBL amp. The more we spoke I started to remember an MBL dealer telling me that the MBL's really need their own amplification in order to sound their best. Do you know if this is true? They are very intriguing speakers for sure.
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Great answer and what I probably expected. I have a friend who owns Vandersteen 7 mkIIs and has other great gear to go along. He auditioned or was about to, the MBL mono blocks. He was going to get a good deal I'm sure, but I just felt that other amps with zero feedback would work better with the Vandy's. He ended passing and is going with the Ayre MRX Twenty, which is a GREAT mate. Again, it's all about synergy with components and we all get lost there sometimes. Thanks |
This seems like a DIY forum. Very few folks here seem to want to build their own or have to buy three amps just to power a two channel system. I'm not putting them down, but just like we've pointe out in other threads the cost of your system goes through the roof supplying top amplification for them.
Example: I have a pair of Vandersteen Treo's. They were in the price range at the time (8K). I also own an Ayre AX5/20 integrated amp (cost 13K)
If I had to run the Treo's with three channels of amplification, I'd have to get amps that sound as good or better than what I'm using. That would also mean getting rid of an integrated that I love. I'd have to sell my integrated for a loss. Then it's off to get three Ayre mono block amps (yes, I like the zero feedback Ayre amps a ton). Not even sure how much they would be, but then I'd also have to get matching speaker cables and that's another 2500 per channel (but since I already have an 8' run, I'd only need two more runs for a total of 5k).
The argument that I could just run an NAD or Rotel or some other lesser amp is wrong since that would completely degrade the sound even if those amps were running world class speakers. Same with lowering the cables (although not nearly as much degradation as the amps being lowered).
At some point practicality has to come into play too. I haven' heard these Linkwitz so I can't say that I like or dislike them. I do want to give them a go one of these days. Just my opinion (and I'm not the only one as a few folks have emailed me about this thread and another one questioning the DIY thing as well as tri amping) and I'm not trying to say that I'm right and you are wrong, so try and read it in that vein. Thanks. |
Great answer. I agree with value per dollar, however being audio, the real question becomes which speaker will sound BEST in your system. When I said Vandersteen or other names speakers will keep their value, that doesn't mean they still won't be the best buy for you. Taking into consideration that they well may be the best sounding for you to begin with. If so, then that's the speaker for you to get I would think. The fact that they will cost less in the long run if you need or want to ever sell them again in the future. The bottom line is that for this kind of money there are so many good options. You really need to drill down to see which speakers you want to audition based on what's around you to listen to and if there is one or two reviewers who seem to listen the way you do and appreciate what you like to hear. That way you don't go crazy like I did (although I'm glad I did and it was a fun two year journey getting to Vandersteens, which I went into my search not wanting at all). Companies change their sound greatly over time with new components to work with and new parts as well. I listened to so many speakers from the 90's to current and most of the speakers who's parts are over 5 years old, on the whole, didn't sound as good as more recent designs etc... JMHO. |
MD, sometimes it matters. Just depends as there are sweet spots in lines that make a ton of sense. Then when you are able to properly mate these, that's when you get a value. I've heard plenty of one driver systems over the years. That was the first thing that stood out to me about the Vandersteen line. They sound like a single source speaker. Very few do this for ME. I am very sensitive to distorted highs and coherency. That's why I've yet to hear sub systems that I truly love and would want to live with. Balance is too important to music for me. If it's not balanced, then I keep thinking while listening. Takes away the fun for me. Most of the lines I"ve liked in the past and present are first order cross over, true time and phase aligned. The only built in subs I've liked are the Vandersteens since he's found a way for my main amp to keep it's 'sound' even on Richards subs/amp. It's also nice to be able to tune the bass for the room I'm playing it in. That's always the hard part, getting deep, tuneful bass AND loading the room properly. I personally feel the Quatro is the best value in his line. As I said, I'll be selling my Treo's to get the Quatro. His speakers sound great on zero feedback SS amps and sound even better with tube gear if you want to run tubes. Sorry to go on and on, but I"m listening now and have been for hours. Just realized I need to head down to eat, lol. Keep us posted on your search. This is fun. Thanks |
MD, sometimes it matters. Just depends as there are sweet spots in lines that make a ton of sense. Then when you are able to properly mate these, that's when you get a value. I've heard plenty of one driver systems over the years. That was the first thing that stood out to me about the Vandersteen line. They sound like a single source speaker. Very few do this for ME. I am very sensitive to distorted highs and coherency. That's why I've yet to hear sub systems that I truly love and would want to live with. Balance is too important to music for me. If it's not balanced, then I keep thinking while listening. Takes away the fun for me. Most of the lines I"ve liked in the past and present are first order cross over, true time and phase aligned. The only built in subs I've liked are the Vandersteens since he's found a way for my main amp to keep it's 'sound' even on Richards subs/amp. It's also nice to be able to tune the bass for the room I'm playing it in. That's always the hard part, getting deep, tuneful bass AND loading the room properly. I personally feel the Quatro is the best value in his line. As I said, I'll be selling my Treo's to get the Quatro. His speakers sound great on zero feedback SS amps and sound even better with tube gear if you want to run tubes. Sorry to go on and on, but I"m listening now and have been for hours. Just realized I need to head down to eat, lol. Keep us posted on your search. This is fun. Thanks |
Can't go wrong as Atlanta has some great dealers. Vandersteen has a top dealer there and they know the products well as long as others. You should also check out the Maggies and KEF's while there. All three are so totally different, but musical. Hang in there and get better. |
New Thiel or original product?
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I used to really like the Avalons. I noticed many of the dealers have dropped them (and the value has gone down tremendously). One dealer told me that he had to drop them as the new owners won't advertise and he can't give them away. It's really a shame as they had a few nice speakers, but like Thiel, they aren't what they build their reputation on. |
Congrats, nice to find a pair of speakers you love. |
I'd also put Vandersteens on your short list. Make sure you hear the carbon series speakers. |
Keith, what was cheaper than what? Not sure which post you are answering. I'm trying to keep up, lol. |
I've heard those a few times in years past. Very nice sounding to my ear, but you are right, they are HUGE, lol. |
100 posts and 100 differing opinions. Very interesting and enlightening thoughts. That's why I like be the forums. |
I keep seeing that Coli has a post after my last post but it's not showing up when I open this thread. Do any of you see that post as the last post in this thread (other than THIS post asking, lol). Thanks.
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Thanks Al, I just couldn't make sense of it. Wonder what happened, lol. Oh well. Buddy of mine is going nuts over his Vandersteen 5 CT's. He said he upgraded his amps and server. Said he's blown away as he made a few other tweeks and the speakers are even better and he loved them before, lol. I do love the line obviously. I also have enjoyed some of the NEW Legacy speakers too. They do some things very similar to Vandy's. I think they can be very hot on top though, but they do so much really well. Very few speakers I love listening to. Some of them are not the last word in definition etc, but they are musical...Kind of like listening to the radio in the car, lol. |
Nab, I remember a former post of yours saying you lived in Georgia. HiFi Buys in Atlanta is a great Vandersteen dealer. He has a lot of other choices too so you can see what YOU like and they are great helping with set up too. Let us know what's up. |
Personally I'm very concerned about what direction B&W is going in. They were just acquired by a two year old Silicon Valley tech company this week and it could be a boon for the high end, or it could hurt it as they are the largest and most well known (main stream) speaker company.
Room is the most important part of the listening equation. What I love about the Vandersteen Quatro on up is that they have a built in sub woofer/amp system where you can fine tune your speakers from 100hz down to your room. It works and works great. That way you can place your speakers in the best spot to do what you want them to do, or you can put them right up against a wall and still get great sound. I just put a large plant right next to the speakers and I have a quilt on the side walls do I don't get that first reflection. I also have a stack of albums on the rear wall to diffract the sound waves. The Vandersteens use a couple of technologies to eliminate the rear sound wave from the drivers so you don't get smearing of the sound wave from rear reflections that you get in many other speakers. The rear firing tweeter in their 5 and 7 are ONLY there to make some happy with 'ambient' sound. It's not for serious listening at all. He has to sell speakers, so he has the ability to turn it on ONLY if you think you need it. |
NAB, I know of a dealer who has a similar problem with floor joints. He put some steel plates under the speakers I believe. The Vandersteen Quatro on up is the best speaker I've ever heard of in their price ranges for dealing with bass. Richard has been doing this for soo long, that he just gets it. There is a reason his speakers are some of the best selling high end speakers of all time. I have many friends who own his speakers and are able to keep them p against the wall or even pull them way out to get an even better sound stage and they never worry about the bass. Where do you live? |
Nab2, send me a message. Let's talk off line. Don't want to clutter the thread as I have a question or two. Thanks.
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Why do folks get upset about what other people decide to spend on anything? I never understood that and no I can't afford a pair or Vandersteen 5CT's or higher. No I can't afford that awesome sounding amp he makes to go with them either. That said, I love it when folks can as they get what they paid for and more. Same goes for other brands who's speakers are more than X amount. HM1, I can get thousands of posts to post that you spend way too much on the components you posted about. What if he doesn't like the sound of what you posted? Just because we all love and swear by our own gear (and most of us on here do), that doesn't mean it's right for others. Honestly, I love Nab's response. Way to take the high road Nab. |
I have liked a few of the older Thiel's, but not all of them. I forget the models that I enjoyed (we have a local dealer who personally owns them and loves them). When they were bought out, I personally feel it ruined the company. JMHO. |
