What tube amp for Harbeth 40.1

@aj523 “Everything is more alive more dynamic like it woke up.” is exactly how I feel when I try the Adcom.  I am wondering if adding a preamp will achieve that.  But adding the Luxkit a3300 failed to do so.  Maybe I should try the LTA, but the preamp is too expensive.  I may retry the MicroZOTL MZ2 as a preamp.

Thanks for all the replies.  A lot of good suggestions.  I picked up a McIntosh MC275 IV yesterday.  The reason is that it is a local sale, the price is right, and it has a gain control.  I don’t have fund to buy a preamp now, so, this is a big plus.  I connect my source directly into it.  The McIntosh is more readily available in the used market also.  But definitely will try those other suggestions when something comes up.  I tried it briefly on my X5.  It is pretty good, but also don’t feel much special.  I will try it on Harbeth later today and report back.  

@ryder Yes, I only listen to Jazz in low to medium volume averaging at 82dB.  I think a tube amp with is good for me.  My goal is to find something with more power so to improve the bass and sound, but won’t lose the 3D, holographic sound.

@mapman Do you have experience with z40?  I did some research on LTA, their ZOTL10 has very good reviews.  Their preamp got very good reviews too.  But I haven’t tried any OTL amps. I read someone said a well executed OTL gives more dynamics and lively music.  
But cost is a concern too.  The PrimaLuna are the cheapest out of the three.  

There is also a Audio Research VSI60 on sale locally for much cheaper than those three.

@twoleftears i am thinking an integrated.  It is the Z40.  Budget is a concern, bought too many gears within this year already.

@elevick yes, I considered hybrid and seriously look into McIntosh MA252.  I always want a piece of McIntosh, but have been using efficient speakers.  Initially, I think this is my chance to buy a McIntosh with 40.1.  But after doing some research, I am not sure.  MCs are expensive, and it seems a big part goes to the brand.  The MA252 is more affordable, but then some comments says it clips (with the light turns from green to orange) easily even at normal volume.  I don’t think volume is a concern for me, but it seems the quality of the product is not as good as their more expensive amps.  It seems for the money, I can get more from other brands.

And my budget is $4000 for used equipments.

Having said that, I can also understand the response from Harbeth support.  They can’t just market their speaker to be good at only a limited type of music, they just can’t say that.  

I also don’t think the power makes it flat or dull.  It is more depending on the circuit.  I have two 300B amp, one is 11W and one is 8W.  Tested on my Spatial Audio X5, the 8W one sounds more dynamic. 

Yes, I read good reviews on Line Magnetic especially the 219ia.  But I don’t feel comfortable with the super hot 845 tube.  One of the reason I sold my Almarro 318b is because of the heat from the 6c33c.  
That is actually a question.  Does any of those amps I short listed run super hot?

I heard good things about atma-sphere.  But  ... it takes many tubes, it would add to the cost.  I am not sure how expensive are the tubes ... 

@squeak_king_77Thanks for your feedback on Leben.  Based on that, it seems the CS600x may not be suitable for me.  For example, compared to the Almarro and my custom built 300B, I feel the Almarro is more “linear”.  I don’t know if this is the right term.  I feel my 300B is a bit more dynamic, more engaging ... hard to tell exactly what are the differences, it is more a feeling and impression.

Probably a long shot.  Anyone has experience with Luxman mq-60?  It is a vintage in 1970s.  It is a push-pull in triode mode.  It originally use 50CA10, but I am going to change it to 6L6.  It outputs 30W.  I know 30W is likely not enough, but just think to try based on the price tag.

I watch that video, it is interesting.  But I have a question.  Is it really the speaker drawing power?  I don’t think the speakers draw power, but it is the amp pushing power, right?  
I have a question. if we play the same music, volume knob at the same level, to a more sensitive speaker, will it display that it is pushing the same 750W power?  Of course, the music will be louder pushing the same amount of power to a more sensitive speaker.

On the other hand, What if using an amp with smaller power playing the same song, how will that look like ...

Just to report back on my testing between a Custom built, 8W 300B amp vs McIntosh 275 IV.

I listen to soft Jazz music 95% of the time.  For those 95% with examples below, I don’t feel the McIntosh 275 is better.  Just an impression, I feel the 275 has greater density.  But the 300B is a small bit smoother, more relax, sweeter, have a easier listening, and more life like.  Not saying the 275 is bad, it is very good.  It has the 3D, holographic tube sound, just the 300B is a bit sweeter.
So Nicehttps://youtu.be/LKaAS3ZxiKM
Cry Me a Riverhttps://youtu.be/cizgXSegrko

However, for the music below, there is a big difference.  It is obvious that the 300B cannot produce the big bass.  I can imagine some symphony also need more power on Harbeth.  But at the same time, I feel this is not the type of music for Harbeth.  The same song play on JBL 4344 monitor with an 8W 300B can produce much better and bigger sound than the 75W MC275 on the Harbeth. 

My Grandma and Penghu Bay
https://youtu.be/zyylBQ3yUOs

But I don’t regret buying the McIntosh a bit, I always want a McIntosh.  It definitely sounds good for more music on Harbeth.  But instead of using huge SS amp on Harbeth to get the dynamics, I will just simply buy another speaker.  Why forcing a square into a round hole? ; )

Now my search of a preamp begins ...

Actually, I have two options now. Because I also want to upgrade my DAC. I am using an Audio GD nfb3. It is an entry level DAC bought maybe 8 years ago. I upgraded to a Topping DX7 pro but the Bluetooth keeps dropping, so I return it. I taste what a new DAC may bring to me. However, I don’t know how much improvement I will get from adding a preamp.

First option is to get a DAC with a preamp out. The focus is in the DAC. Hopefully the output impedance match better than my current DAC which doesn’t have a preamp out.

Second option is to stick with the NFB3 DAC and get a preamp. Max budget is $2000. I read another threads, and I am seriously considering the LTA MZ2. Or for a similar price, I can get a custom built amp/preamp using 71A tube in push pull.
Which route will give me biggest improvement for now?

@aj523 actually, I don’t know.  Is it better to matching the brand, or try to find “the best” preamp regardless of the brand?  The McIntosh preamps are expensive too ... because of the brand, I think.  I just feel for the same money I may be able to get something better.  For example, 
- Coincident Line Stage
- Supratek 
- LTA preamp

... or Luxman?  I like the brand.

You are right.  I hear a pair of JBl 4344 at a friends place.  Oh gee, that sound can’t get away from my head, and it becomes my reference sound.  But I don’t think I can get close to that sound without that speaker.  It is the speaker that makes the most difference.  Each speaker has a different sound.

Any idea what are those Conrad Johnson monoblocks?  I went to the web site and can’t see any monoblocks.  Not sure if the ART150 and ART300 are monoblocks or not.

@aj523 can you please elaborate more on what are the improvements?  My MC275 also can be switch to mono @150W.  So, I may buy another 275 down the road, but it is expensive.

alternatively, there is a MA6600 for sale locally with 200W per channel.  However, it is a SS, and i am not sure if I will like the sound.  But I will never know until I try it, I guess.  If it works, I can then sell my MC275.

I would like to share my update.

After I bought the McIntosh 275, it improves the bass compared to the 8W 300B. But the sound of the JBL 4344 keep swirling in my head, and I have been trying to see if I can make the Harbeth sounds like the 4344.
I wonder if adding a preamp will “improve” the sound further, I borrowed a Luxman a3300, but I don’t like the sound. I prefer the DAC goes directly into the amp. Then I borrow an Adcom GFA555 SS power amp with 200wpc. It sounds very different!!! It is more musical and more dynamic. It sounds “harder” and dryer. Musical instruments sound very good. I think for classical, I likely prefer SS.  However, for vocal, it is not as sweet, and the sound is less holographic. But I can understand why many prefer to use big power SS amp with Harbeth. I can see a potential, is it possible to find a SS amp that has the dynamics, but at the same time sound more tubey? I don’t think it is only because of bigger power, but also the SS vs Tube sound.

My budget is limited to $2000 since I spent a lot on the 275. I don’t want to sell it until I find something better. I have two thoughts:

1) get a better tube preamp such as Supratek with a cheaper SS amp. The Adcom GFA555 can be had for $500. Hopefully the tube preamp will give the tube sound.

2) get a better, vintage SS, such as a McIntosh, Luxman, Accuphase ... etc. I am looking at a McIntosh MC2155.
Which one will give me the best of both worlds?

I am doing more testing last night and swap the IC.  I only have two pairs of ICs.  One I always feel bright and harsh, has been used between the preamp and power amp.  I swapped it last night and it makes a HUGE difference to both MC275 and Adcom.  But the improvement is bigger on MC275.  For the 275, it becomes more musical and more airy.  For the Adcom, it also sound more holographic, deeper sound stage, and less harsh.

Now, both sounds good, at least sound “right”.  I need to do more listening.  I still feel the SS is more dynamic.  I feel I can hear more background instruments, while the 275 is more dominant by the vocal.  I am also surprised how good the Adcom sound.  

@bassdude
thank you very much for your comments.  Although I already bought a McIntosh 275, I always tempted to buy a SS with greater than 200wpc.  I have an old Adcom and it sounds quite good on the Harbeth.  Would there be any good (vintage) SS amp in $1500 range that you would recommend?  Such as old Luxman, Sansui, Onkyo ... etc?

Just to give an update, after replying on 10/10, I acquired a 200W Sony TA-N77ES.  I need to take back my words.  Among the 8W 300B tube amp, 75W McIntosh 275, and this 200W Sony, I like Sony the most.  After listening for the Sony for a while, then switch to the 300B, some of them sounds good, but I feel something is lacking for many songs.  The 75W McIntosh is better, but feel a bit slow.  The Sony gives more dynamic.  Yes, the vocal is not as sweet, but it is not bad.  Maybe the Sony TA-N77ES is a warm sounding SS.