I can only speak for myself. My OHM F5s are it for me save perhaps OHM F5015s if I want to go nuts someday.
I would be tempted by MBL if could be had for that price but would probably have a ripple effect and make me spend a lot more time and money getting it right again.
If I could find the right Dynaudios for my current larger room I might be tempted. |
Magico Mini 2s are wonderful speakers but not end game if you want it all unless perhaps in a smaller room.
Room size matters end game for a small room is much easier than for large. |
Schubert that could work. 😉 |
I was thinking the same thing. Nothing to do with vapor but speaker preferences vary. Personally I would not risk a large financial loss. Buying used or vendor policies can help alleviate the risk. If it does not work out the money saved can still be invested as needed |
I've never heard any vapors so can't say. They seem like a very nice product. No idea how many pair have been made and out there but I think they have only been around a few years which might help account for scarcity used. Seems like a solid product one can build around with success just not a huge track record to date.
Would like to hear them someday plus the build quailty is supposedly top notch. |
The thing is unless your room is exceptionally large the world is your oyster for speakers with 10k to spend. Not to say there are not products that cost more but for most people's home applications the additional utility that might be present with some products probably does not matter much. If all else is done well. Good sound is a team sport. Speakers are key but can't do it all alone. |
Nothing against Wavetouch or Vapor, but in general, with vendors that have not been around for long and with lesser known products, its hard to say if their products are "end game" or not. Time usually tells what works best. It's a riskier proposition in general. That's not to say the risk may not pay off. But for $10000, why take a risk? Especially if you are not able to hear before having to commit. |
In home trial is what you want. You might have to pay return shipping but that should be the only real risk if legit.
OR buy used and do not overpay and then resell and move on as needed for another way to try in home with less risk. For large expensive gear, look for good used options that have all the potential shipping issues covered. I like to wait for a local seller and pick up myself whenever possible, especially for larger heavy expensive gear like $10K speakers. |
JUg, I have never heard either VApor or Wavetouch and have no experience with either's customer service so both are unknowns to me.
Obviously most vendors will say their stuff is best. They might even believe it. Its what you think and their willingness to do what they can to make you a happy customer that matters. Track records matter. |
FOr a different approach with stands, ie isolating and placement lower to floor with tilt up if needed, take a look at the larger Isoacoustics stands perhaps.
I'm not saying these would necessarily be better or best, but a different approach that might have merit in some situations where decoupling from a livelier room is of benefit combined with lower level placement to enable the floor to reinforce the bass if needed.
Also low placement with uptilt increases distance to rear wall and delays those reflections which can be beneficial for soundstage and imaging in a smaller room.
I use these with my smaller Triangle monitors in my wife's very lively 12X12 with cathedral ceiling sunroom (see my system picture) and this was the only thing I found that ever got any speakers sounding right in there. |
Nothing unusual about vendors generalizing specifications as a marketing ploy.
Its not hard to have 94DB speakers....assuming the lowest octave or so is excluded.
Lots of "snakeoil" like this around. Nothing unique to see here really.
Yes, if its small and advertised as higher efficiency, then either the bass rolls of early by design or something does not add up.
The devil is always in the details. |
The Grand Teton specs on teh website indicate frequency response down to 42hz but no indication of the roll off so it could well be way down at that point. Another generalized spec that may mean little that might play into a higher sensitivity rating perhaps.
Nothing new to see there people...move on. Happens all the time! A least some reviewers like Stereophile do measurements that provide more insight if anyone cares.
Also given the unique waveguides or call them what you will, I could see where these may well be more directional than most speakers meaning more sound to the front than sides than usual, which could also help sensitivity measures, at least on axis.
So its hard for me to say the specs do not add up. Its also hard for me to say they mean much. Maybe if people hear these and like them someone will take up putting them to more rigorous and quantitative testing. Of course that still does not indicate necessarily how good something sounds or not, just how well they perform from a technical perspective, which might be a useful starting point of information but seldom tells the whole story accurately.
I'm guessing the most unique thing about these might be that they have a unique sound radiation pattern which might be a boon or benefit depending. At least its a different twist. I would like to hear them just for that. |
Actually, seeing its only a 5.25" woofer, its a pretty safe bet not much is happening at 42hz. Also ribbon/folded ribbon tweets like that used are inherently directional as well I read. So the small size and seemingly directional design should help produce a higher than average sensitivity rating with the lowest octave or so omitted by design. I'd expect it does what does well. A 5.25" woofer in a $2000 speaker seems undersized compared to a lot of the competition. Maybe what it does it does well and that's enough in a smaller room. That would seem to be the most realistically one could expect. The 42 hz frequency response spec is the one I would question the most in this case. |
For me 25K would probably mean mbl all the way, hey!
Maybe if I hit the lottery but not likely. As much as I love the good sounds of music, I don't know if I could justify 25K worth of speaker. Maybe in teh great room of some mansion that I will never own. |
Time will always tell. Or in this case Jughead as well once he gets his I hope. |
I hope Wavetouch proves the critics wrong.
I looked at the website. I think there is a good deal of analogy directed at the layperson applied there to describe what they are trying to do. It kinda works to describe what teh advertised benefit is but of course is lacking in technical detail as is the case with many product websites targeting the average person and not just engineers that might be able to sort through things.
I'll give it credit for being unique. Can it deliver particularly in the value category? We'll see. It seems to use some good components as mentioned and I would expect it to be more directional than otherwise, which is a somewhat unique design goal and is the jist of what they are trying to do I think. Kinda taking things in the opposite direction from teh norm than omnidirectional speakers. There could be unique benefit with that if done even moderately well that might help justify the cost for what seems to be an undersized product for teh cost otherwise on teh grand scale of things. Time will tell. Jughead perhaps even sooner. I see the glass maybe to be more half full than half empty with this product. At least its something a little different. We'll see soon I suspect if its the deal deal or just another passing gimmick.
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His name is "jug" head. He has a Master plan at work here I think. 👏👏👏 |
Well, not all engineers are created equal. From what I read Duke is a pretty good one though.
I'm not an acoustic engineeer, but it makes sense to me that larger structures would be needed to effect lower frequencies.
I am a systems/software engineer and have some background in physics. Not that it matters....
With most companies its the marketing folks that determine what the public sees in that the task at hand is to make sales and teh consumers are not engineers.
So lots of nonsense from a technical perspective goes on there all the time. Ive seen it as an engineer working with marketing folks to help them understand how a product really works. What comes out the other end is mostly a function of target audience demographics.
With small companies the engineer may also be the boss and also the marketer wearing different hats at different times. So anything is still possible.
There is a lot of grey with the Wavetouch for sure. In home trials/satisfaction guarantees when honored take most of teh risk out of trying something different at least.
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ALso good engineers tend to be expensive and most companies cannot afford enough good ones. Hopefully they have at least one or two somewhere..... |
A good engineer need only know their technical domain best in order to be the best engineer.
But there is more to delivering good engineered solutions. Its a team sport. In that context, the best engineer is the one that uses their expertise to help deliver high value to the end user. High value and best technical implementation are not necessarily the same thing as we have seen many times over the years in terms of what products succeed and which do not.
Apple is the classic example these days of applying technology effectively over time to meet the most user needs. |
"Anyone who tells you how something is going to sound just by looking at a spec sheet is full of it. "
I would agree with that. However, a good engineer will know how to put those specs to best use in order to meet the goal. |
