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WHAT SHOULD BE MY NEXT SYSTEM UPGRADE?

Forgive the length of this entry, but I am anticipating questions I am likely to receive and wanted to provide as much useful information as possible.

I focus on listening to the music and am not prone to frequent system upgrades.  When I do upgrade it is because the improvement in sound quality is obvious to both my wife and I and seems to be a good value. We both play musical instruments, listen almost exclusively to classical and jazz, regularly attend concerts, especially orchestral works, chamber music and small jazz groups.  The classical performances are all in venues with good to excellent acoustics, so over many years of listening we know how live performances should sound.

Several months ago I purchased a Lumin U1 mini digital music player after auditioning a Lumin T2 and comparing the DAC in the T2 to my current Ayre QSB-9 DSD DAC.  What became apparent was that the existing DAC was not the most significant limiting factor in our system.  By connecting the Lumin to my iMac via an Ethernet switch and cables, and using it as a player only, the clarity of the music improved markedly.  I attribute this to the reported higher levels of “noise” transmitted through the iMac’s USB connection.  The Lumin was “quieter” - less noise and distortion, and has the added benefit of providing us with an excellent streamer for our Qobuz Hi-Res subscription.  So I purchased the Lumin U1 mini, which is a digital player only.  (We use both the Lumin app and Roon to listen to our own digitized music and Qobuz.)

Having spent a bit of time reading threads on Audiogon, articles in various publications and talking to a few dealers, it seems that I might achieve further marked improvements in sound quality - clarity, detail and accuracy of reproduction, less noise and distortion, better soundstage - by using a music server as a file source and/or by upgrading to a newer DAC.  While the other components in our system may be improved upon, our experience in auditioning various speakers and amps over the years, including in the past 12 months, lead me to believe the digital source/processing is where the biggest gains can be achieved.  

Our current system for the main listening room consists of the following components.

Mac Mini i7 with music on an external Thunderbolt hard drive (RAID 1 configuration) 

Lumin U1 mini digital music player

Ayre QSB-9 DSD DAC

Ayre CX-7emp CD player

Ayre K5-emp pre-amplifier

Proceed HPA-2 dual mono amplifier 

Aerial Acoustics Model 8b speakers

Transparent Plus (generation 5) interconnects

Transparent 10 ga. in-wall speaker cables (bi-wire terminations)

Audioquest Niagara 1000 power conditioner

Transparent USB (Lumin to Ayre DAC) and power cables

The purchases of the CD player, pre-amp, power conditioner and Lumin unit all made very noticeable improvements to sound quality.  Our digitized music collection now sounds virtually the same as, if not a bit better than the original CDs played on the Ayre CD player.  It was noticeably inferior before the Lumin was added to the system.

I’m seeking input from Audiogon members as to components they believe would provide the most improvement for the dollar to our current system, with an emphasis on digital music servers and DACs.  Let’s save recommendations regarding pre-amps, amps and speakers for another time.

With respect to music servers, a simple solution would be to replace the MacMini with the $1,200 Lumin L1, basically a hard drive and associated hardware designed for digital music use.  It can connect to my Lumin U1 mini via Ethernet, which I understand to be preferable to USB, with some recent suggestions to the contrary.  One downside is the need to reconnect to a computer every time you want to transfer a CD you’ve ripped or a file you’ve downloaded to the L1.  Local dealers also carry music servers by Aurender, Auralic, and some other more mass market brands.  I have read some good things about the sound quality of Innuous servers, but there are no local dealers and I am hesitant to purchase anything that I cannot demo with my existing equipment in my own listening room.

As to DACs/processors/combo units, I would automatically be disposed to the Ayre QX-5 Twenty given my experience with the company (excellent response to customer inquiries, great upgrade policy, outstandingly neutral sounding products).  Local dealers also carry the Lumin X1 (which would require trading in or selling my Lumin U1 mini, which is fine), the MSB Discrete (and its more costly brethren), Berkeley Audio Designs, T+A, Aurender, Auralic.  An out-of-town dealer with whom I’ve dealt carries some of these same brands plus Naim, dcs, Linn, and others.

As to budget, let’s say that depends to some extent on the performance the product.  For the purposes of discussion let’s say up to $5k for a music server and up to $10k for the DAC.  A bit of stretch is possible and the combined total would work for a combo product, but past experience suggests different firms have strengths in different areas.

I am particularly interested in thoughts about whether a music server or new DAC would provide more improvement.  I've read the past comments of the bits are bits naysayers and can confirm that just switching from USB to Ethernet connectivity made a big improvement.  So bits transmitted with power and circuit noise are inferior to bits transmitted with less of both!

Your feedback is sincerely appreciated.      


sameyers1

Showing 10 responses by sameyers1

sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
millercarbon - Same question on the Blue Quantum fuses -   independent source that explains why product actually does improve sound  Before I go through the process of reading manuals to identify proper fuse types, ordering the necessary fuses and then opening up relevant pieces of equipment to install them, I'd like to understand how they work. Also would like your feedback on how they behave in an environment with power spikes so significant that my Niagara power conditioner will turn off the system.  (We have a lot of nearby lightning strikes and also have an excessive number of virtually daily very short outages followed by peaks when service is restored, since we are at the end of the power company's service area and are served by only one circuit.  Thank you.
sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
jond and sfseay - Is the power supply and internal circuitry of a NAS any "cleaner" than that of a MacMini?  I've considered a NAS  My local Lumin dealer uses one, which suggests he may see little benefit to a dedicated music server, even though he sells them.

sfseay - You indicate you have a Lumin L1.  Do you notice any improvement in sound quality between it and your Synology NAS?  There is little difference in cost between the L1 and a decent NAS.
thyname - Thanks for the link to the pre-owned Ayre QX-5.  If I go that route I will definitely consider pre-owned given the quality and reliability of the Ayre products I own.

jond - As to the Ayre amps, frankly I auditioned prior Ayre amps and passed.  My old Proceed (serviced twice by a highly qualified center recommended by my dealer), which is a Mark Levinson design with a Proceed label, is an excellent match for my power hungry, 86db sensitivity speakers, with 250/500w at 8/4 ohms.  My speakers are nominal 4 ohm and operate at 3 ohms at certain frequencies and loads.  I recently did an in-home audition of the top of line Luxman integrated amp at 120/220w at 8/4 ohms and it clipped badly at moderately high volumes playing classical music.  Will consider amp upgrades at a later date.

miller carbon - I've followed some of your responses on other threads and appreciate your input.  Frankly, I need to do some homework before I can ask some intelligent questions.  
sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
miller carbon - Can you direct me to a web site that explains how CFTs and HFTs work?  I read a little on the Synergistic Research web site. Their web site provides very little explanation.  Since they sell the products, I'd prefer some input from a neutral source that has tested such products. You have to admit that sticking stuff on the wall and ceiling of your room and on the speakers, or inside your electronics sounds a bit out there.  If they work, why don't manufacturers, particularly high-end product makers, install them in their products?  Pardon me if I question before I leap.  Is there a manufacturer of such products that you prefer?  I am trying to stretch mentally, but I am also aware of the old adage that if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. 
sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
david_ten - Many thanks.
sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
@audiotroy the Luxman was a bit brighter sounding than my gear at lower listening levels, but not necessarily better.  Its bass response was inferior.  Overall resolution may have been a bit better on the high frequencies.  It was not tiring or electronic sounding.  (I owned an excellent Luxman receiver many years ago, and the Luxman was paired with Magico A3 speakers at a show we attended - a very good pairing.)

The Gryphon Diablo has been suggested by a local dealer.  But why purchase a new integrated before speakers?  

If new speakers require less power, wouldn't it make sense to start there?  Frankly, after auditioning Magico A3, B&W Diamond series, Wilson and others, I am less convinced that newer speakers will sound better, just different in some instances.  The Magico was the best in our view. A bit more accurate than our speakers, but with a bit less realistic bass response, particularly when listening to say a jazz piano trio and its acoustic bass, and a bit sterile sounding. After 30 minutes of listening, the B&W 800 and 801 were tiring (too bright and electronic sounding).  The Wilson Sophia and Sasha auditioned a number of years ago were similar to our Aerials and I didn't see any improvement in imaging or resolution even though that was suggested as their strong points.  What would you recommend for someone who prefers speakers that lack a lot of coloration, have great resolution, don't sound electronic and tiring, and have good full-range frequency response?

Thanks in advance for your input.  
sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
@audiotroy thanks for the input.  You are the second source to mention the Wireworld cables.  Will consider borrowing from The Cable Company to check them out.  Also, I am not surprised you recommended KEF Reference speakers.  I like the "British" sound.   And we purchased KEF speakers years ago for our daughter and my parents after auditioning a number of bookshelf models.  I am not familiar with Vimberg, but will research cost and see if there are any dealers not too far away.  

Thanks again for your assistance. 
sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
@geoffkait yes I realize some posts are by those hawking products they sell.  It's their right. Rest easy, I never purchase anything without demoing in my home.  And I tend to shy away from the more esoteric items.  It is interesting to me how few posts actually address the issue on which I focussed, the digital source.  

Source, amp, speaker.  Aren't those the three basics, perhaps adding room set-up/treatment?  Then on to things like power and cables. Perhaps I should have made the title of the post something like Music Server vs. New DAC, which offers most improvement?  I am open to more unusual tweaks if sellers offer in-home trials with fair return policies.
sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
To those who have been kind enough to respond to my post, I want to provide an update. I have followed the suggestion of @millercarbon and contacted Synergistic Research regarding their room treatments and other products. They put me in touch with Peter Hansen of The Cable Company, one of their dealers and a former Synergistic employee. Peter asked for a list of my equipment, and I sent an excerpt from my original post along with some photos of my listening room.

We spoke by phone today and the first thing he wants me to do is to try two alternate speaker locations and to swap my right and left speakers so the side-firing woofers point to the center of the listening room rather than the sides. The alternate speaker locations were recommended to get more air around the speakers. Interestingly, he was not at all concerned about increasing the distance between the speakers beyond the typically recommended norm given the distance to my listening position. He said that the HFTs will resolve any imaging issues once I’ve optimized the speaker locations as best I can. 

I’m to call him back after several days of listening to the speakers in their new location. He will then work with me on the placement of the first set of 5 HFTs. Will post in a couple of weeks after testing the first HFTs, which can be returned in 30 days for a full refund if I’m not satisfied.

Hansen was very pleasant and helpful and given his reputation I have expectations of much improved sound as I work through the process of installing the room treatments he is recommending. He suggested adding Synergistic’s Black Box to manage the lower frequencies once I’ve installed the optimal number and type of HFTs for my room and on my speakers. 

Stay tuned if you have an interest in acoustical treatments, and thanks again for your suggestions. 



sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
@keithtexas It's the room, not the speakers.  If you saw the photos I sent to Hansen you would understand.  Goal is to pull the speakers further forward into the room and away from a wall that intrudes 30" into the room at its center.  This wall forms the enclosure for a bookcase (above) and a fireplace and space for the 58" tv below.

@geoffkait Normally I would agree with you. The ratio of distance from listening position to speakers vs. distance between the speakers is currently 1.36, within the 1.2 to 1.5 normally recommended.  And voicing the speakers with a test CD plus more importantly using my own ears is how the speakers got to where they are now.  My room is a far from an ideal listening room - in addition to the issue explained above, it is open in back to the kitchen and a breakfast nook and there are limits to where I can place speakers given that it is the family room, has the tv slightly to the left of center and is not a dedicated listening room.  If the HFTs work, it would be great.  There is a 30-day free trial, so if I am not satisfied, I can return them.
sameyers1 OP
140 posts
 
@thyname, step one of relocating the speakers involved moving them further into the room to get more air around them.  This  noticeably improved the imaging and clarity, but narrowed the sound stage a bit, which surprised me, as they are the same distance from the side walls.  

The next step will be moving the speakers further apart and a bit closer to the side walls while also  swapping the left and right speakers so the side firing woofers face the center of the room.  Will get to that next week, as we want to spend sufficient time with the speakers where they are to make sure we get a good sense of the sound at this location.  Will advise once the next change is made.  (Moving each of the 120 lb speakers about 15' does not make for quick and easy A/B tests.)  After that I will call back Peter Hansen and report the results, as he wanted to know the results of the speaker relocation and may have suggestions for further tweaking of the placement.  Once we get that optimal, we will do the phase 1 HFT install.  He didn't want to add any HFTs or other room treatments until we found what we believed was the best speaker placement. 
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