What's the greatest bargain in SET these days?

Rebbi,
By this point there's been very good actual owner feedback and a "rave" 6 Moons review, pretty encouraging if you ask me.
1) Built by an established company.
2)The owener /builder has a reputation for developing excellent sounding components across the board.
3)1,300.00 USD brand new with a warranty.
4)very simple circuit, stereo chassis with only 6 tubes total!
5) Uses inexpensive tubes that are easily available.(very flexible tube rolling potential)
6)Uses good transformers(not a given in this price range).
7)Stout power supply (again not a given in this price range).
8) This amplifier has been reported as excellent with your specific speaker.
Just some food for thought.
Regards,
Charles,

If someone can build an amplifier comparable to the Dynamo for 120.00 in parts and 3 hours of labor, by all means do it. I'm very skeptical,talk is cheap. If that 120.00 USD gets you the same quality transformers(power and output),tube sockets, capacitors,chassis, wire quality etc, then do it. Construct this DIY amp and then do direct comparision with the Dynamo and listen. I think the result would "struggle" to equal the Dennis Had amps discussed earlier in this thread and that is being polite. Some folks are experienced/talented enough to make impressive DIY projects, but easier said then done. I'd like to hear the 120.00 USD amp built in 3 hours and judge it's sound quality. Any takers?
Charles,

Hi Seikosha,
The limiting factors are the quality of your transformers and the stiffness of the power supply section. This is where budget amplifiers often cut corners. These two areas are crucial according to makers of high quality SETs (make or break).Issrael deliberately put much of the Dynamo's part cost towards the transformers. Based on the comments on this thread, it was a wise decision. The cheaper kits can't provide this type of iron at their very low price point. Audio Note kits offer top level transformers (optional upgrades) and their price reflects that point.

Mikirob,
The better the audio components, the more you emphasize music listening vs check Iist of sonic boxes to mark. Yes you do notice them but they are overshadowed by the music involvement factor. The Armstrong-Ellington recording hasn't changed, your better amplifier is just able to convey more of the musical signal intact. Your excellent results aren't a surprise.
Charles,

Mikirob,
Agree with the welcome mat being out for all music genres. The Frankenstein and honestly any good quality SET plays it all, and the lesser SETs will falter. This is true for all topologies, certainly not every solid state amplifier is universally accomplished reproducing all music genres successfully. Complex or dense music isn't an obstacle for the Frankenstein. Bill who listens to more of this type of music than I do would I'm sure concur. Just match this group of low power amplifiers with a suitable speaker and you're all set. Mikirob has confirmed that with his very joyful reporting here of his listening sessions. These amplifiers bring the music alive.
Charles,

Hi Mikirob,
You're a bass player and I have a comment for you. Last night I attended a jazz performance and the bass player made ample use of his bow on the ballads. This con arco playing just captivates me with its beauty, I could have just melted away, man, did he sound good!
Is con arco playing more difficult than plucking the strings as is more common in nazz music? I love both but that bow moving across those strings is just delicious.
Thanks,
Charles,

Mikirob,
Thanks for your reply. You might like this CD by the Acoustic bass legend himself Paul Chambers, "Bass On Top". He led this quartet that features guitarist Kenny Burrell. There's a lot of plucked and con arco playing at a masterful level. This is a 1958 stereo recording on Blue Note.
Charles,

Yes, I think Mikirob will definitely appreciate the CSL and Frankenstein when the time is right for him. Fortunately he isn't suffering with the Dynamo at the present. Hmiguel (owner and designer of Tripoint Audio) is very pleased with his recently purchased CSL. Miguel is all about realism and musical honesty. His products reside in the highest tier in my opinion. I believed Coincident would mate well with his system and his reaction confirms this.  
Charles,

Mikirob,
It obvious to me you have very good ears and you trust them (you know what you like). You'll end up with speakers that suit your taste and system well.
Charles,

I bet she sounds as good as shes looks.

Mikirob,
Your wife has good ears, does she share your musician background? The SET amplifiers sacrifice power relative to push pull alternatives. Their simpler design/circuits in return offer purer and more natural sound IMO. There's less complexity and fewer parts affecting the signal. I bet your wife hears this advantage (lively and increased sense of realism). Plus if she's similar to my wife she'll consider the Dynamo "cute". My wife can definitely detect/hear the differences in "naturalness" amongst various audio components. She'll say Charles, "that one sounds more real than the other one".
Charles,

Mikirob,
That was a good explanation of tube rolling. It isn't always a good tube replaces bad tube situation. Often it's the opportunity to tailor tube sound to your specific taste. Different doesn't imply better in every case. Some tube component owners never roll tubes, this is strictly a personalized option.
Charles,

Hello Tim,
As long as you openly acknowledge your status (reviewer, dealer, manufacturer etc.) it's fine, Srajan posts here on occasion. I hope to read more of your 6 Moons reviews as they're well written, detailed and enjoyable. Your taste in music is very good and that helps to identify the character of a described component and establish context. For an example when you described Russell Malone's beautiful guitar chords ("Sweet Georgia Peach" CD) I knew exactly what you meant! The capability of a component to authentically reproduce tonal color, harmonic overtones, timbre, substain, decay is a must have for me. Jazz guitar in particular is an
excellent litmus test for me as well as vibraphone (piano is a given). Tim I believe that you'd love "Jazz In The Key Of Blue" by Jimmy Cobb and features Roy Hargrove (trumpet) and lots of beautifully played guitar from Malone.

Regarding the Line Magnetic 518ia, I've read or have heard nothing but praise for this 845 SET amplifier. If I needed more power (and I don't) the 518ia would be a major contender in my search. Fortunately the Coincident Frankenstein satisfies all of my needs. I look forward to reading more of your reviews.
Charles,

Hi Rebbi,
It was definitely worth your time to create this thread given the feedback you've received.

Mikirob,
I was working under the same premise as well. The thread focus was on amplifiers such as Dennis Had, Decware and the Dynamo. The LM 518ia moves to a difference price level. No one can really know if Rebbi will prefer the SET over his Manley push pull. I easily chose SET over my two push pull amplifiers after direct comparisons in my system. That's just me and doesn't mean Rebbi will have the same conclusion in his system. If possible a direct comparison is the way to settle choice.
Charles,

Hi Al,
Your insight and technical perspective is always welcome. This is a fine example of very logical use of measurements (Al) vs actually listening to the pairing of amplifier and same speaker (Bill).It seems this combo can do quite a lot with the exception of orchestra music at really high volume. If this isn't a requirement for Rebbi there's the potential to be very happy with this match. Reviewer Tim Smith says the Dynamo was a good match with lower sensitivity Harbeths.
Charles,

Tubegroover,
I agree with you, this has been a very informative thread with many good contributions, this is what I look forward to on this site. I've become plain worn out with the battleground threads with the same predictable lines drawn in the sand. Tubegroover you should read Tim Smith's Dynamo review in 6 Moons. The work and effort he put into it is very apparent, in addition he writes well.
Charles,

I think the fact that we're discussing the exceptional ability of a 1300.00 amplifier can't be overlooked. Some would consider this a "bargain" priced for a power cord, pair of interconnectd or vibration control stand/footers. We are talking about a amplifier that has demonstrated the ability to reproduce music at a very high level, that is significant.No it can't drive every speaker load and it does possess some limitations, so what! You can spent much more for an amplifier and find it amusical and uninvolving and you end up listening to less music.

Based on comments and reviews posted here the Dynamo inspires "more" listening and enjoyment, isn't this a good thing? The ability for a component to provide good natural sound isn't a given despite what it may cost. There are more than a few higher power/higher cost amplifiers that sound like crap and lack a musical soul(I've heard my share).

If your objective is to really enjoy the sheer pleasure of music in your home, this is one fine affordable place to begin. Will it drive a Maggie, Wilson or a Magico? No it will not. Are there speakers available that it can drive successfully? Yes. Find those suitable speakers, sit back and enjoy some wonderful sound while listening to your music. 1300.00 for a music making amp, seems like a great option to me.
Charles,

Tubegroover,
Your comment about the Lamm/Coincident Frankenstein owner is interesting. I know the Lamm can drive speakers that the Frankenstein would find difficult to handle. If the speaker is an appropriate match the Frankenstein can hold its own on purely music making/emotional engagement grounds.Is that Lamm owner actually going to return to the Frankenstein?
Charles,

My gut feeling is that the Glow is a good sounding SEP (single ended pentode, el84) and likely a step above the Dennis Had offerings. The Glow weighs 14.3 pounds, uses small amounts of NFB anc has solid state rectification. The Dynamo weighs 22 pounds, zero NFB and is tube rectified. The Dynamo's 50% weight gain is in all likelihood bigger and heftier transformers. As had been noted before, transformer quality and capacity can make or break these single ended amplifiers. It would be very worthwhile to compare these two differently designed amplifiers in the same system. Design differences aside, I'd like to hear what distinguishes one from the other.
Charles,

Mapman,
That glowing color ring is a compelling feature and could be a must have for some buyers.
Charles,

Tubegroover,
If you're interested in SET amplifiers with more power than a 300b provides, the LM 518ia and Coincident Turbo 845 are serious built and executed choices. Yes they're heavy beasts and for good reason, major power supply and transformers to properly handle the demands of the high voltage 845 tube. I'd really relish the opportunity to hear these two A/B directly. I suspect that they are both truly excellent sounding SETs if you need roughly 25 watts of power. Both use the 300b as the driver tube, these are high value amplifiers when you consider the total package they offer.

Correction,
The Line Magnetic 219ia has the 300b driver not the 518ia.

Tim Smith,
If you are still following this thread I have some suggested recordings you may like. On my system page date 10/18/2014 I listed some jazz guitarists CDs (you may have these already).

Four more to consider.
Kenny Burrell, "Bluesy Burrell" and "Midnight Blue".
Wes Montgomery, "Full House" and "Wes Montgomery Trio"
Charles,

Tubegroover,
Understood, if you're happy there's no need for change.
Charles,

Rebbi,
Roxy54 has a AN kit 300b with the upgraded output transformers and Jupiter Cu foil capacitors, he loves it. I would say if comes down to how much do you want to spend? Now it becomes value at a given price point.
1) Dynamo/Decware 1200.
2) AN Kit 300b 2200-3450.
3)Frankenstein 6000.
All represent money well spent at their respective cost cost.
Charles,

Rebbi,
This thread has generated nearly 300 posts and most have been quite helpful. One correction, Brownsfan did hear your speaker with the Dynamo and was very pleased. Do you have an absolute spending ceiling?

Hi Rebbi,
Just as a reminder given the size of this thread. On 8/26/2014 Brownsfan gave you a very detailed listening impression of "four" different amplifiers with your DeCapo speakers. He also provided a follow up up post that same day. It's encouraging that the speaker's builder strongly approves of SET use(part of the design objective).

Rebbi,
You've done your homework based on the list of amplifier contenders.There isn't a bad choice among them and very likely anyone of them would make you happy long term. You're at a point where ther's little left to add, listening is the next step. The Dynamo with a small investment for switchbox and better recrifier tube is high value choice.

For more money you step into the realm of DHT tubes (300b and PX 25). The Art Audio PX 25 gets nothing but raves and for 2800.00 (or less) is a truly good deal IMHO.The Art Audio is said to use very good transformers and power supply. Me, I'd spend more and get the pure DHT Art Audio. I'm a buy what's really good and keep it very long term type of guy.
Charles,

Steve,
of course, I think each of your candidates are very good amplifiers. Based on your list I felt the Art Audio have the highest level of part and built quality(and a bargain at 2800). To get similar quality output transformers in the AN Kit requires the C Core upgrade IMO. I certainly believe the "standard" AN Kit 300b is no doubt good quality. That's the thing, the higher level transformers just don't come cheap! The Frankenstein is 6K, but this cuys you custom Japanese double C Cores for the output,power and the interstage transformers. That's a lot of ultra quality iron.

I know less about the ASL amplifier but have read that they're good. Your speaker builder sure likes them so that counts for something. The AN Kit option leaves room for future upgrades if desired.If the transformer are too much money, I'd give serious consideration to at least getting upgraded capacitors if possible. Based on my experience these parts really do matter and will provide improved sound quality. Keep in mind Steve that DHT tubes are much more expensive than el34 types. However DHT tubes generally last a very long time(10K hours or more depending on amp circuit and operation points chosen).DHT are the oldest and more simpler design tubes but they make beautiful music in a well implemented amplifier. It will be a different presentation compared to your push pull Manley. Better sounding? that will be for you to decide, they are for me.
Charles,

Brownsfan ,
You are correct. Differences are more than output tube. The Frankenstein has the advantage of bigger and better transformers and power supply as well as better parts, this is very significant. The Dynamo is an excellent budget conscious amp. The Franks are Israel Blume's all out statement SET quest. Very different objectives, the Franks are honestly sublime amplifiers.

The SET asylum site is the classic hit and miss example. There are smart and very experience people there without question. They can provide deep technical information. But you also get the DIY know it all aspect sometimes. There are some who believe their amps always trump commercial brands. This could very well be true in some cases but not across the board as they suggest. Overall I do find it a worthwhile site with a few warts.

Bill,
I can't address the technical differences,only the subjective listening. Mikirob actually summed it up superbly! The 300b is simply more natural sounding and thus more realistic. Tone,timbre,harmonic nuance and musical fluidity are superior IMHO. Can a good el34 amp sound very good? Absolutely yes, and better than a mediocore 300b amp. If implemented to a high level I'll choose the 300b option. It inherently is more authentic,richer yet more open with better resolution and transparency. This is what the higher cost tube gets you. These are just my listening impressions over the years.

I know Mikirob compared el34 vs el34 as push pull vs SET but the subjective distinctions are nearly the same.

Rebbi,
It is not surprising Decware would use DHTs as their reference target. Do they equal or surpass DHTs? That's up to the listener to determine.

Mikirob,
Your reply to Rebbi is on the mark IMO. It comes to what you want at what cost point. My choice is the same as yours , spend more money to get a 300b amp with quality built and parts. Once this is done match it to the proper speakers and you will have long term joy with no regrets I believe.

Mapman,
That SS amp could bevery good. If someone wants to truly experience what a good DHT amp is about you have to hear the real thing. SS won't mimic DHT. Now which one is preferred is simply choice. Rebbi expressed an interest in DHT and SET/SEP.

Rebbi,
That's what I thought regarding your direction. You are right, you won't look back.

Rebbi,
I have respect for Paul Joppa and his bottle head products. AN Kits have really eared a strong reputation for their design,part quality options and built. Both of these are to a degree built to fit a price point. This is why upgrade options are offered.

Art audio begins at a higher price point, their stock parts are the other two amp's higher upgrade level. I would lean toward the Art Audio and replace the bad tube. This is a very highly regarded SET amplifier. The PX 25 is less common than the 300b but they are certainly available.
Any of these 3 choices are good at their price point. A used Art Audio in good condition is very tempting.

Al,
I hear what you're saying and as always it is rational. Brownsfan reports that the Dynamo works wonderfully with his DeCapos. So it is the expected varied experiences. Tim Smith said the amp was fine with 87db Harbeths. Much depends on listening levels,genre and room size.

Markus,
That is quite a compliment for the Frankenstein considering you have the esteemed Lamm SET as well.

Hi Rebbi,
As I've said before,you're doing your homework. I honesty like all 3 of your final choices for various reasons.
1) Art Audio is a proven product with professional reviewer raves and also very strong owner feedback comments. Buying used with unknown(at this time anyway) support/repair network. However tube amps(especially point to point wired) aren't hard to repair for a good local tech.

2)AN Kit 300b, solid track record for quality and well respected product. Has very good owner satisfaction feedback.I'm glad upgrade capacitors were encouraged(smart move). As a kit the final result will be somewhat builder (skill)dependent. They do other optional high quality parts.

3)Commonsense 300b, Relatively unknown(unproven?) must trust the word of the builder mostly. However this could be a"really" good SET amplifier. It looks fine on paper and the story is good(who has heard one?).For 1500.00 it could in fact be something special. This amp represents the great unknown(unlike AN Kit and Art Audio).

all things considered the AN Kit is probably the safest choice with excellent upgrade options.AN certainly has vast experience and knowledge regarding the 300b tube.
Charles,

Mapman,
Your experiences with SET amps(not sure which ones you've heard,some are better than others of course) seem to certainly differ from mine,Brownsfan,Mikirob,Markus and others. In your case it appears you are better off with high power SS or class D amplifiers. That's the good aspect of audio, we all find what individually suits us best. Dynamic contrast and their gradiations are not an issue in my system. I personally experience more "startle" episodes listening with my SET amps than all the previous amps I've owned. As they say, YMMV.

Hi Rebbi,
Congratulations! I believe you'll be very happy with your choice of the AN Kit. I think your final contenders were all worthy amplifiers. If anything I thought you were leaning towards the Audio Nirvana. What made the fine Audio Note you choice? I'm glad you're getting the better capacitors option. Get out the soldering iron.

Al,
That observation correlates with my listening experience.With the sensitivity of my speakers (94 db and 14 ohm load)sitting 10 feet from the speakers. My average SPL listening is 75-80 db C weighted with a range with most jazz CD recordings from soft (low 50s db) to (88-90 db peaks). Most of the time amp is using "fractions" of 1 watt up to 1-2 watts of power. So distortion is very low. This explains the high resolution,transparency and very subtle nuance retrival. These levels are very easy on the ears and yet enjoyable and involving. Loudest I've gone was 102-104 db with cranked up jazz drumming and rock(the Doors and also N. Young).It was good at those high levels(done rarely).

Mdemaio,
What you report is very good news for many people. High quality sound for very reasonable cost. Seems that's quite a 300b SET for 1550.00

Rebbi,
Brian sounds like a fair and reasonable person. If the budget is tight currently that's understood. It certainly isn't a life or death matter to get all upgrades at once, there's plenty of time. The point is that you're starting with a very solid foundation with a proven product, you did well. Okay, time for some NFL fun.For the 3 games today I'm picking Lions,Cowboys and Seahawks.

Hi Rebbi,
The more I reflect on your situation and choices, the more attractive the Commomsense Audio SET amp becomes.Mdemaio said it was very close to the Audion SET in sound quality. That's high praise given the Audion's stature and reputation. To get this for 1550.00 is remarkable IMO. This price gives you room for possible upgraded parts, I'd ask David if for a bit more money could the caps,wire,resistors be improved.These parts are crucial to getting top level sound. I wouldn't cut corners here to save a few dollars. He might say the chosen parts are already top quality(for all I know).

For instance using some Jupiter copper foil coupling capacitors would be excellent(they aren't crazy expensive either). Have him use the best wire you can afford, If you get this right the first time you'll have a SET that can keep you happy for many years. Of course I have no idea if he's open to this approach or not. SET circuits are so bare bones pure and simple that you'll hear what each part has to offer.
Charles,

Rebbi,
Well you have put forth a clear summary of the tradeoffs that exist. David's SET is less money for the reasons you listed. I suspect you'd love the Dynamo but may maintain "what if" possibilities about the 300b difference. David's SET is not much more money and gets you a 300b amp. The Dynamo has the highly regarded Coincident name, quality and support. If the Commonsense SET is as good as it seems, it's a great opportunity. Somewhere down the road get top quality 300b tubes and you'll have something special.

Gary,
+1 your China observation. Their standard of living has skyrocketed in the past 15-20 years.