What process did you use to integrate multiple subwoofers for 2 channel listening?
So in my case, FWIW, I’ve been able to get the sound I want with a sub and good but not full range small monitors (KEF ls50 meta) simply by getting the mains setup optimally first, then using decibel app on iphone and streaming white noise to get the sub to visibly fill in the missing lowest octave. Only three controls to play with on one sub, a Klipsch sw308: level, low pass cutoff, and phase. I eyeballed it with the meter app, then sat down with some music to fine tune the sub. It’s perfect to my ears now! Took about 30 minutes to get it dialed in (sub controls are accessible from main listening position). Discovered I had not landed anywhere near the right level and settings for the sub by ear alone. Low pass cutoff way too high and level way too low. It helped that that room is thin dense carpet pad over solid concrete foundation. No floor resonance issues there like I have upstairs to deal with. If you have those, tackle those directly with isolation pads or equivalent under speakers. Of course all rooms and ears are different. Also experiments are how you learn. I learned never make these things any harder or more complex than necessary to deliver results that are technically good but more important pleasing to the listener. NExt step would be DSP just to see what happens and if worth it, but I am at a good place now so not much incentive to dabble more than needed at present. Maybe someday when I retire. |
a good quality parametric equalizer or DSP would really be the simplest and most cost effective way to fix things in a problem room rather than a complex sub setup in a system that does not seem bass starved to start with. I know, I know, more stuff in the signal path. So what? As long as its good stuff? Audiophiles get too anal about these things sometimes. THe end result is all that matters. With digital anything is possible. Them’s the facts! Digital is your friend! Stick some tubes upstream if you must. Whatever works best. |
All good. It’s also possible the speakers are not flat down to their lowest rating. Not uncommon. You would have to measure with a test signal alone to know as a baseline then add the subs. Room size, acoustics and amp are factors for that. Bigger rooms always need a lot more muscle for flat extended bass. Power needs increase exponentially with lower frequency and many main amps alone are not up to the task of doing it alone at the lowest frequencies. |
@hilde45 did I read correctly that your subs go down to 35hz and your mains also not much different in terms of low end extension? If so, unless the 3 sub array is smoothing out the response at your listening position, there may not be much if any benefit with using any subs at least for those seeking flat response. Your subs have a lot of controls though which should help tune in however many subs you throw at it to improve whatever might be possible, so that is a good thing. Your sound meter is your friend. I used white noise as a source to get my sub tuned in optimally with minimal effort. Some might seek more bass, not necessarily flat response. No problem. To each their own. Generally, from a pure technical perspective though, you primarily use subs to extend the low end to pick up the lowest octave down to 20hz or so that is missing otherwise. If both subs and mains have same extension to lower 30s hz, they are merely adding more of what you already have, nothing new. Your bass down to the low 30s hz is a combo of mains + subs and you are still not picking up the full lowest octave most can hear (if even in the recording to start with which is typically not a given except with some better recordings involving instruments that produce music down there). See chart: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8b/4a/6f/8b4a6fd7b8d65711eed41850a194284e.jpg I would think it could be very difficult to get a sub array to smooth out response ideally when the mains are also contributing. If using a turntable, you may pick up power draining rumble or feedback down there which is a bad thing and should be eliminated or filtered if present and not done so already in the phono section of the amp, so need to be careful there. Are the woofers noticeably moving with a record playing and no music? That’s the sign if so. Not an issue with digital sources. If your mains are truly somewhat responsive into the 30s hz, benefits of using a sub at all is marginal to start with. The control flexibility of even one in your case (rhythmik) would help. Now if you are crossing over the mains at a higher frequency and offloading the low end below to the subs, then we are talking. That would have benefit of offloading work from you main amps which should be a good thing if done right. Duke is the bass array man. See what he thinks. |
SO the one thing that should be gained rather simply with multiple subs no matter what is that each sub now has to work less hard to provide the proper bass level and as Duke alluded to in that original post as provided by Tvad, that alone should be a positive to some extent in that most amps sound better when they do not have to work as hard. How much better? I suspect YMMV there case by case. So more subs are better than less, but you do have to get them all working together properly somehow. You can’t just assume well its bass so location does not matter. Nothing truly worthwhile is ever simple, right? Also it will most likely never ever be perfect still. Just better. Something no self respecting audiophile is ever likely to find easy to accept. It can always be even better, right? Where does it stop? You get to decide. I’ve stopped at just one when needed (only with limited range speakers) and 0 with full range. The most I see myself ever going if I convince myself I need more torture and clutter someday would be 4 based on what I’ve read to-date. |
https://ohmspeaker.com/news/for-optimum-sound-how-many-subs-and-where-do-you-put-em/
One other thing. I know audiokinesis is big on speaker dispersion patterns and how that affects the sound. Seems to me that benefits of a bass array is not the same in all cases. Mains need to have good dispersion characteristics to start with to match the subs I would think for best results. If mains are highly directional, there may be only so much to gain from smoother bass response across a room. Or it might just make getting things to sound right across the room impossible to start with no matter what you do with subs. Food for thought. |
I thought the Ohm blog article I linked to by John Strohbeen above was interesting. Something of a different take on optimizing sub placement for audio as opposed to home theater with more of a focus on timing of the sound waves from the subs relative to mains and listening position and how that affects what you hear than what I’ve heard from bass array proponents elsewhere where the main goal is to produce smoother bass response throughout the room including main listening position. JS’s conclusions on placement based on that seem simpler and different from other bass array proponents including Duke at @audiokinesis. 1 sub, center forward. 2 subs as stands for mains. 3 or more to the rear and set to lower SPL. Would love to hear AK’s take on that? It seems more focused on optimizing the bass more thoroughly specifically at the listeners location. |
You can of course do it with a test signal like white noise and a meter. That’s how I did it with 1 sub. Learned you can’t just trust your ears in this case to get it right. More subs and more controls means more complexity. That’s when automation like minidsp comes in handy to cut to the chase. Live and learn …. that’s a good thing. |
