What power cord are you using on your Vandy 5A's

I agree with you Zargon as well! It is not soley due to the deeper fundementals that's for sure. The equipment is the most important factor here (after setup of the speakers to the room). The cabling on your gear obviously is more important as well! I agree with you here whole heartedly. Its just, when all else has been explored, you've got everything set up pretty well, system synergy is really groovin, you can still fine tune the hall info, increase the size of soundstage, and focus of the deeper bass with Ac cords on the 5A's too, thats all. I think the hall info/size of recording space/venue is often more defined by the deep bass then the high end "air". That's why I think the right cabling on any subs is serious. Having footers and isolation that maintains that same priority system wide is helpful here too. But essentially we agree that it is not all the fundamental's.......

But you should still hear the Ac cabling of the 5A's is all. Listen for yourself, and see/hear if it is a positve change, not just change for changing's sake. Thats all, just trust your ears. And always enjoy your music/system.

I've tried a few cords on my Vandersteen 5As. Used the stock cords, then built a modified version of the Asylum cords. I noted a slight increase in the attack of bass notes, with a slight reduction of decay. Tried Shunyata Venom cords - even more definition on the attack, but bass began to sound a bit overly damped.

I'm currently using the stock cords again, but am getting ready to build another pair of modified-recipe Asylum cords.

I fully agree with your description of the localization of the bass in stereo sound staging, and I can hear that in my system. I'm just not sure it can be accomplished solely due to the fundamental, and I'm still puzzeled why a PC would affect it as you describe. I also believe a change due to a PC should be at least partially identifiable in the mono signal (exception of 3D effects).

Yes, the 5As have the best subs I have ever heard and they are the most tonally coherent speakers I have ever heard. A killer for sure with or without PC upgrades.

Jeff, I have pretty good ears (Mannes Cons. Grad - woodwind/reed player), and was sort of "blind tested", as my good friend likes to really shoot me down, see me fail these sort of listening tests, but I know what I hear and from where in the stage it eminates. I definitely knew the TG from the Elrod Sig3's(the "misty wet stage" the Elrod throws can't be mistaken from the more neutral Tg, let alone a standard 14g Belden)

Zargon, I am a big fan of BAlanced power. So I eveny your dedicated transformer! This may effect your listening experiences........ the system the 5A's play in have 4 dedicated 20amp 10g lines I helped install.

Now as to hearing, I do not know about you. I hear down low real well, as I am a true bass voice. I hear the origin and localization of low E on Double Basses, the low A on a Grand Piano (somewhere @ 32hz I believe???) and can locate some of the deep pipes of a pipe organ in various churches and concert hall's I have been in. I understand what most "studies" say, maybe I am an exception?, but I hear the focus of deep bass like I hear the focus of a viola section or trombone section in a Symphonie (when recorded well of course), again when a system is setup well. I have heard the effects of various isolation feet and racks effect this, both for the good and bad. Trust your ears. If you don't hear it, cool. If you do, and you focus on it, and can't get it right,..... oh boy, lord help you. Been there. LOL.

Oh, and that whole mono test, I wouldn't think it would do any good for stereo soundstaging when you are trying to get the bass to not be mono, but "Stereo Bass". If you have a recording of a bass player in a jazz trio off to the far left, he should soundstage like a tenor player might in that same locale. Low E as well as upper bass, as well as the body cavities of a double bass. Same for symphonies, if the double basses are back/rear of stage center stage (some London Symphony Recordings) they should sound like they are behind the woodwinds, Basson or Horns. Same for say the Berlin Philharmonic where their double basses are often recorded front far right and curl around to the rear right corner of the stage, that is where you should hear them.... Again, Low E on up... Ostinato's, or as counterpoint, .....

Then the hall info deep bass provides....... the size of the stage the the Tg and Elrod help provide.....the rear and side walls, the way the room might pressurize as at the time of the recording (the 5A's are a killer speaker....)..... all stereo bass issues.

Monk, I am very curious about the differences you heard with power cords on the 5As. While I agree that the setup, room, and overall system synergy is important, I have not been able to detect anything similar to what you report.

One possible difference is that I have separate dedicated lines to each component, including each 5A, and the 4 lines leading to the source components are on a 4kva iso transformer. I believe this may reduce the sensitivity to the AC cords, but I have no absolute proof of that.

Also, I have read studies that show the ear is not capable of resolving the location of bass frequencies below 40 Hz. That would mean that much of the location dependencies you are hearing are in the upper bass or in the bass harmonics. So there could be a relationship with the primary amp as well.

Since there are two identical subs, why not try one with a stock cord and one with an aftermarket cord, play music in mono, and alternate between channels to evaluate any difference? I will give this a try myself.

Monk - Blind test, or did you know which cables you were listening to?

well, my experience differ's from those above. My closest audio pal has Vandersteen 5a's, and I am very famaliar with the various changes to his system over the years. I think the Ac cord can really help the overall soundstage, not just bass soundstaging when the Vandies are set up well to do so (ie room treatments, set up out into the room, away from walls, no tv's or equip racks inbetween......)

2 Ac cords that really soundstage in the bass regions (ie the bass doesn't emit from the speakers, or the center stage ie mono bass, but rather from where the bass player/players/section is/are in the ensemble as recorded). With a Tg Audio SLVR on the 5a's if a symphonie has the double basses off to the far right outside the right speaker, and they curl around to toward the center stage behind the cello's or viol's then that's where you here them - both as single players and as a section... Same for the Elrod Signature cords. I personally liked the Tg better for soundstage focus of the deep bass and the hall info that comes from well reproduced deep bass(rear hall, side walls as well as dynamics and soundstage size increase from well done deep bass), but listen for yourself. Even upgrading from the stock cords to the Asylum recipe AC cord was an upgrade to his stock cords on the 5A's, that is what convinced him to seek better cords for the Vandersteen Amps.

But then again, set up is everything, as is your system's synergy as a whole (and Ac polarity, and recording polarity as well). Your Source, preamp, and amp/speaker interface with the room, all have to in concert with each other, have these abilities to hear these differences - the Ac cords/system cabling alone do not perform miracles on gear that doesn't have these abilities or priorities; they help but do not make it "all" happen.

Thanks for the responses.

George

Stock on the left, stock + long walmart special extension cord on the right, can't detect any difference this makes to sound.

I am using the stock cords, as recommended by Richard Vandersteen. No other cord has ever made a discernable difference. It is very difficult to detect subtle changes in the 18-100 Hz range. I would not spend money here, but on the source cords instead.