What percentage of audiophiles use a sub ?

I agree with those who are opposed to the addition. IMO, if you are really a two-channel fan then you'll leave the ".1" out of it. Now home theatre? You better have one or at least capable speakers. Otherwise, unnecessary.

On another note, I have to turn my music down most of the time when any really dynamic passage comes because the bass output from my little monitors is enough to shake the entire apartment and I'd rather not have the cops called for that. Now if I owned a house I might turn it up a little more but I still wouldn't dream of adding a sub. I think it also distorts the music a little too. Even a good one. It just doens't belong now matter how you tune it or where you set it up.

But then we come full circle back around to this question. Are you a 2-channel fan? Or aren't you?

If your speakers just aren't impressive or lack bass output of any kind then I can see where one would add a sub. But I think I'd put my money towards upgrading my speakers. Then you don't have to worry about a sub output on your two-channel amp. Which bears another note... I typically don't see many sub outputs on high-end dedicated 2-channel amps, do you? I think they're trying to say something.

LOL!!! No no. I wasn't trying to offend anyone or say you can't or that it's wrong. Forgive me for loving my two channels of joy. I just feel that adding a sub approaches the more is less philosophy. And I'm even taking cues from professionally installed with the top of the line products and sound isolation, room treatments....you name it. And I hated hearing the sub. It was so isolated from the rest of the music. I could hear where it was coming from even when it was turned down.

Now on the subject of sound wave propogation. Those very low frequencies will never develop in your listening field. So why bother trying to produce it? I'm not going to start in on the numbers game but if you have a sub and have some specs, do the math. I'm perfectly happy with the bass response out of my monitors. My 43Hz is plenty low. My buddy came over just earlier today for a listen and asked where the sub was at or if there were any other speakers. I told him "yer lookin at it." And the sad part is I only had the volume up 1/6th of the way.

And again, its just another speaker to add more distortion and I don't think the addition of more bass is congruent to the philosophy of resolution and clarity desired by hi-fi audio purists. Then again that is simply an opinion. If you are getting offended then take a deep breath, call me nuts, and move on. ;-)

I really love topics like these. So stimulating.

Mapman - "I have yet to hear small monitors that can compete with equally good full range speakers for delivering the oomph that some music requires."

No argument there. I love full range speakers, especially the Reference 3A. For an apartment dweller I just couldn't go full-range and found my monitors to be more than satisfying. But even then, with a full-range setup I still would not consider a sub. Again, that's just me. My car is a different story. I like it heavy and low and my JL 10W7 gets me just that. ;-) But then I'm not aiming for perfection in a mobile environment.

I think the biggest points brought up are probably the exact reasons why I couldn't stand a sub. Placement, cost/quality relative to main speakers, and active sub vs. speaker level and different amps running different speakers. Not least is the cabling as well.

I can imagine that if you really did your homework and found the perfect high quality sub for your speakers to match, the right cables, the right placement and matching amps then I could concur that adding a sub would be a well worthwhile investment. Maybe in the future I'll put my righteous two-channel philosophy to the test. I'll be sure to let ya'll know if I switched sides. ;-)

Marty,

I absolutely agree. Numbers only get you so far. It's a good approach but then you have to get subjective at some point.

What voodoo?

Everyone offered very valid points whether agreed to or not. Your speakers may not be up to the task to reproduce everything in the manner intended so if you really lack bass at all then go ahead and add a sub. I couldn't care less. It isn't going in my system.

But if you start saying Obeah verses while your tubes are warming up then no one can help you.

Marty,

I completely missed your posts on 8-03. Don't know how but again, I agree with you there. Just because MA specs these 6.5" drivers to 43Hz doesn't mean a thing. BTW, very insightful posts too. Thanks