. I have a fairly powerful machine currently running at 60x,
@jji666 and that is why it won't sound as good as dedicated music servers.
What makes One Music Server Sound Better than Another?
So this week my Mojo Audio DejaVu music server that I have used for the past 2-3 years crapped out. Benjamin at Mojo was more than helpful and the DejaVu is on its way to Mojo Audio where it will make a full recovery.
Thankfully, I still have my Antipodes DX2 Gen 3 (their former flagship) music server so I hooked it up. After wrestling with Roon protocols, transfers, and set-up menus, I was able to get it going so I have music. The DX and my Sonore Sig Rendu SE opt. are both connected to my network so the DX (like the DejaVu), is only being used as a Roon core and the Sig Rendu SE serves as the Roon endpoint for streaming Tidal and Qobuz, with a direct USB connection to my DAC.
The point of this thread is to ask, how come I perceive the the DejaVu server as sounding better than the Antipdes DX? In fairness, the differences I perceive are not great but it seems the DejaVu is fuller sounding, more tonally rich, and bolder. Is this why some here spend $10K+ on a Grimm, Taiko or something else?
If a server is basically a computer, sending digital information to a streamer/endpoint and, assuming that digital information is transmitted asynchronously and reclocked by the DAC’s master clock, and assuming noise is not the issue (i.e., both units are quiet and there is an optical break between the network and both the server and endpoint) then what are the technical reasons one should sound better than the other? It is not that I want to spend $10K+ on a music server with a lifespan of maybe 5 years before becoming obsolete, but I would like to understand what more you are getting for your money. So far, the best I can come up with is lower internal noise as the major factor.
As a side note to the above, when I thought things looked hopeless for getting set up, I scheduled a support session with Antipodes and, although I lucked into the solution before the meeting time, Mark Cole responded ready to help. Setting up the session was super easy and reminded me of the superior level of support I had come to enjoy from Antipodes during the time that the DX was my primary server, including multiple updates and 2 or 3 hardware upgrades, which prolonged the service life of the DX. Good products and good company.
Showing 13 responses by mclinnguy
Using Roon that would be really easy to do, as the user interface in the K50 allows one to switch server and player duties- all he would have to do is press a button on the web interface to swap the Roon core from K50 to the NUC back and forth with the Roon remote, where the K50 player is constant for both. But @tonywinga did say he was going to do a review, so perhaps this comparison would be included in that. |
Peanut butter chocolate for me thank you. But yes, is there a bad ice cream? Hmmm, what is Tony's flavour?
Maybe a good thing. Just caught a post not long ago on the Planar asylum- fellow has been a huge Quad fan for many years- first pair in 1989- many pairs and faulty panel issues later and looks like the last straw has fallen- he says he is done with Quad!
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That is what it is- breaking down every single part of the process and determining the best approach for each one. Dozens of small details add up a significant change. The power supply is the biggest factor, from what I have read. Some of the current best (Grimm, Antipodes) have gone away from linear power supplies and have developed their own switch mode power supplies. When you consider in one Antipodes box there are 3 of these, 4 processors, one high powered one for the server, a lower powered one for less noise for renderer, each one designed from the ground up for one singular purpose- higher quality audio, it is easy to understand the 10k+ prices. This is a good read if you want more on the process from Antipodes: Antipodes click on "our approach" on the left after landing on that page |
There must be something beneficial to it otherwise Playback designs wouldn't suggest it as their proprietary link. But for sure that is a different level than buying some low-end converters and fiber and slapping them together. I imagine by the time one spends enough for quality optical connectors and switches to make a difference perhaps they are probably better off taking that money and getting a better streamer and streaming cable? |
It is not about the packets, it is not about the bitperfect-ness, the data will get there regardless, it is about noise. Read the link I posted previously from Antipodes. Imagine someone throwing a floating candy in a stream of water, and then 1 mile downstream you pick the candy out of the stream and eat it. A low grade computer is a contaminated sewer infested stream, with industrial waste, dark brown in color. A high end music server dedicated to audio the stream is pristine, perfectly clean, pure water. You get the candy with either stream, it is the same piece of candy either way, but which one would you eat. |
Okay well I tried :) But did you read the link? It does a pretty good job of explaining "why". I think you just need to go a good audio dealer and ask them to play you your favourite track with a macbook and then a high end streamer to prove it. I just received a high end streamer, and I proved it to myself. I don't need to read anything from anybody anymore. I know the truth. |
@jji666 You have done your homework, I commend you on your perseverance. It's obvious you know more about computers than I do, and I think you are a better arguer. But I don't think people buy Porsche's just because they look nice and they want to brag about them. All I'm going to say is what I said before: take your server/player to somewhere where their is a high-end "audiophile" server/player, setup with appropriate highly revealing other components and cables and compare. |
I disagree, you seem quite closed minded. And excuse me but none of us "need" to do anything other than listen and explain what we hear. But I am still posting. While looking at a review for another Antipodes mentioned in a different thread in the forum here I found this quote from their CEO- now tell me if you do the same thing when you build your "fancy" servers: Mark Jenkins: “The motherboards are sourced from the world’s best supplier and they cost around 6 times what some of the competitors are using. We tune the motherboards to shift the frequency peaks of the noise generated by each component in order to eliminate noise nodes, so the mainboards start as an off-the-shelf board and then are customized for our use.” Antipodes also places a lot of emphasis on the quality of the power supply, which they manufacture entirely in-house. Mark Jenkins: “What we did with the new power supply was to test the injection of noise into the motherboard at various frequencies to see which frequencies did the least damage to the sound quality, and then we designed the power supply board in such a way that the noise component was in the benign frequencies. This has a similar effect as a zero noise power supply.”
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@krell_fan1 and let me guess, a cat 6 cable in between the K41 and K22 😉 Since this is a "which streamer sounds better" thread, can you tell us what you had before as a streamer and how the sound you get now compares? |
Correct, I did mean to say server- I stand corrected. I wanted to know what you used before the K41 SERVER. For my music "streaming" I have had 2 different one-box server/streamer solutions, so I have a hard time differentiating between the two words/functions. And why did they both have to start with an S? We should have enforced the "renderer" term. Thanks for the response.
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