What is the missing element?


My pc audio setup currently is as follows

PC (Lossless audio through Jriver) > V-link (first model) > Rega Dac > Jolida JD1501 > KEF LS50s

The Rega was probably the first component I bought that completely transformed the sound of my system. The difference it made was simply huge.

I then added the v-link to support higher resolution audio through the s/pdif connection. Again, the sound noticeably improved. The soundstage was bigger, and the music just sounded fuller. Without the v-link the music sounds quite a bit smaller through the usb input.

The Kefs were the next big leap forward for my system. I simply cant believe how big a sound these tiny little speakers put out.

Now, originally most of my listening was through the setup listed above. However, the addition of a thorens TD-160 has gotten me into vinyl in a big way and now I really don't like the sound of digital. By comparison it sounds like congested chaos, has a rough texture (especially noticeable in voices)and overall is just very brash sounding. I simply can not stand it at loud volumes. Nothing like the polite orderly smoothness I hear on vinyl which constantly has me turning up the volume.

I had all but completely switched to listening to music on my turntable while the rega was relegated to streaming pandora or youtube as background music and always at low volumes. Then, some time spent with a naim cd player reminded me just how good a digital source can sound. So my question is how can I bridge the gap? I have been reading a lot about jitter and I am wondering if that is holding the rega back. I've read that the v-link measures at right around 400ps while other digital transports like the audiophilleo measure well below 100ps. Would replacing the v-link with an audiophilleo or another s/pdif converter give me the sound I am looking for? Is the problem with the nature of computer audio itself and I should just be looking for a good CD player? I am slowly driving myself crazy over this.
128x128megido

Showing 11 responses by cerrot

Megido, save yourself money and get into the best PC audio you can by abandoning usb and getting a $150 ESI Juli@ soundcard. The spdif out of the card blows away any usb output.
There is no usb on the planet that has lower jitter than an spdif output-it is impossible. Remember, USB transmits data in packets, not streams, which is why it is so poor. Music should be transmitted in data streams, not packets. The whole USB to spdif converter thing is a sham. They cost anywhere from $200 to $2,000 and none of them do it as good as not doing it at all.
No note for me to take. USB was an afterthought. It will be gone in 2 years. I will still have my $150 soundcard but what will everyone do with their USB converters?

Besides, they do sound very poor. Just listen!
They use USB because its easier for them. Ever PC has a USB port (or 4). Many users don't want to open their puters to install a sound card, download drivers, etc, so they used the USB bus to dumb everything down, including the sound.
It all came to play because its...universal!

Remember, USB was designed for peripherials, not sound. Think of it - there is absolutely no audio gear that uses USB. There are no dacs with USB out; nothing else at all uses USB. If its so good, why not???
Al, all due respect, there is enough 'wrong' with the packetized USB data flow to allow 'streamed' spdif data to just sound better. USB can sound better if you use a real USB card, not the crap found in a puter, but still not as good as the soundcard. Comes down to output voltage and stability and isolation (and jitter) of that signal.

I totally agree it comes down to implementation. What I am trying to explain is that USB is the poorest implementation. Just because everyone exploits it does not mean it is better.
Nothing to do with convenience??? Kidding, right? The fact that EVERY computer has 4 usb outputs but you need to install a good sound card is not a convenience issue?

Note how there are no CD transports with USB out. Why???

Cause no one in their right mind would convert a signal TO usb.

Riddle me this - if you want to go usb, why not let everyone know the stock USB on the motherboard is VERY poor and it should be upgraded. Why don't we tell anyone? Because if they are going to open their computer, they will install a sound card!

Get educated. I have heard some great sounding USB systems - they do not come close to spdif. No ambiance, emotion. I can walk between the instruments in my soundstage. Can you?
Guys - USB was created for the very reason of PROVIDING CONVENIENCE. These sham PC Audio guys embraced the wrong protocal years back because they did not believe the average Joe would open his puter and install a sound card, deal with drivers, IRQ settings, etc, so they dumbed everything down with USB and some of these guys are still stuck in the dark ages with antiquated USB. You can easily improve your USB sound by installing an actual USB card into a PCI or PCIe slot - notice how no one tells you that. Steve, care to elaborate on that? Or, again, on how no CD transport outputs usb. Or, how engineers TODAY are planning on phasing out USB in a few years. Sticking your head in the sand on that one? My arguments don't hold water? But, yet, you have been unable to dispute me.
The world of High End Audio is not "One Size Fits All (though manufactures who peddle their wares on this site don't want you to understand that).

As that is the case, shouldn't we keep away from anything "Universal"? I like things one on one, just for me. My equipment. My set up. My room. My preferences.

Universal? Like health care? Not good.
Only Firewire, Ethernet and USB were options. USB makes perfect sense.

But, SPDIF & high end sound cards WERE available. Why do you not advise that all agreed engineers wanted an idiot proof solution that did not require opening the computer?

Firewire was better, as that is what the proaudio world embraced (of the 3 you mentioned, only because ethernet was a little behind the times, then). USB was CHEAPER to implement. This is why everyone things USB is the way to go - it was cheaper and easier for the engineers to implement.
Should be easy enough to do since the sound card is only $140.
Everyone remembers the sound of the lynx card and thinks that was and is the sound card standard. It isn't for two reasons. First is no one could configure the drivers properly as it was usually used on the wrong platform and, secondly, dacs are much better today (and so is driver interface to OS architecture) so even the dreaded. lifeless ol lynx will sound better in a stripped windows environment today than it did 6 years ago.
Logic just seems to define to me to take as less steps as possible, and usb ain't it. Its also silly to believe a $200 usb converter does the same job as a $2,000 one. And even crazier to believe you need one.

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone.
Do you really need a money back guarantee for a $140 sound card? We spend more than that on a fuse.