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What is the fascination?

I have to ask what is the fascination with these older turntables?  I recently listened to an older SP 10 MKII with a Jelco and Older SME arm with Koetsu and Stanton cartridges.  The sound was very good I will admit but I cannot say it was better than the 1200G or even a 1200GR for that matter.  Heck even the Rega RP 8 is really an amazing sounding turntable for the money and they are brand new.   These tables are coming up on 40 plus years old.  One forum contributor said a turntable should not have any sound at all.  I agree and the newer tables get closer to that "no sound" than many of these colored (smooth,  warm) sounding turntables   I recently purchased a Pickering ESV 3000 MM cartridge that arrived in the mail yesterday and I had to ask myself, "what am I doing?"  So with that being said, why the fascination?  If one want to change the sound of the table, start with the cartridge, they all do sound different.  Nowadays the tables and arms are so good and engineered based on the earlier designs and bettered.  Also, when you buy say an older used arm, how do you know its been cared for?  Arms bearings can be screwed up pretty bad when one tries to tighten cartridges with the headshell attached to the tonearm or the tonearm mounted on the table and many people do not even know they are destroying their arms bearings so I mean you really have to know who you are getting the arm from and check the bearings etc.  There is a lot of risk with turntables, much more than with any components because of so many moving parts that do get old and break.  Why the fascination? 
tzh21y

Showing 3 responses by lewm

lewm
12,522 posts
 
Can you say, "dripping with sarcasm"?
kahlenz, You are more elitist than you know. Expense-wise, it’s just the other way around. A basically high quality vintage turntable (usually not to be found in any grandfather’s closet), if properly refurbished and usually re-plinthed, will get you more bang for the buck than a comparable new turntable. That’s the whole point. To achieve that end, you do have to be in a DIY frame of mind. If you farm out the work to any of several competent professionals, you will have to pay extra for their time and skillset. That’s the way this cookie crumbles. This IS a hobby, after all; "you pays your money and you takes yer choice".
I’ve got about $800 in my refurbished Denon DP80 and less than $1000 in my Victor TT101. I’ve got a little over $1200 in my Lenco, including the cost of the Phoenix Engineering motor controller. These costs also include all electronic work done on them (mostly by me; some by professionals), all parts bought for them, and the creation of plinths of my own design for them out of slate or of other materials. Any of these 3 will compare favorably to commercially available turntables at over $5000.  (At least that's my opinion, based on owning commercially available turntables for the previous 35 years or so, before I got into this aspect of the hobby about 7-8 years ago, and on lots of listening to other systems fed by turntables costing up to $25,000.)
lewm
12,522 posts
 
Tz,  keep in mind that Raul eventually recanted and came to declare that low output moving coil cartridges as a class were superior to moving magnet and other types of cartridges. Personally I do not share Chakster’s unequivocal preference for moving magnet cartridges. In my opinion, based on my own experience with my own system, I find that both types of cartridges can offer a great result, but you have to pick and choose very carefully. Also, most of us tend to ignore moving iron or induced magnet cartridges or to lump them with moving magnet cartridges. In fact some of the very best cartridges are moving iron and induced magnet types. Again, in my opinion.
lewm
12,522 posts
 
I try to stay out of these idiotic debates, but I don’t always succeed. Cleeds, do you really think the AR turntable was one of the best available in days of yore? It was wildly successful because it was regarded as the cheapest ticket to acceptable “hifi”. For anyone serious about the hobby, it’s shortcomings were evident. Also you’re going back to the 60s in your reminiscing. I think the “golden age” started with the advent of TAS in the mid70s. And finally most of us start with a vintage tt but end up with a highly modified modernized equivalent using modern ideas for mass and damping and platter mats. Especially those who rescue the old idlers which don’t cut it (much too noisy) without a lot of work and modifications. Also if you correct the original cost of the really great units from the 70s to 90s for inflation and for average annual incomes , they were never inexpensive. What we have these days at the very highest end of cost is pandering to oligarchs.

bluephil, the major job of the tt is to spin the LP at a constant speed. The tt does time.
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