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What is the fascination?

I have to ask what is the fascination with these older turntables?  I recently listened to an older SP 10 MKII with a Jelco and Older SME arm with Koetsu and Stanton cartridges.  The sound was very good I will admit but I cannot say it was better than the 1200G or even a 1200GR for that matter.  Heck even the Rega RP 8 is really an amazing sounding turntable for the money and they are brand new.   These tables are coming up on 40 plus years old.  One forum contributor said a turntable should not have any sound at all.  I agree and the newer tables get closer to that "no sound" than many of these colored (smooth,  warm) sounding turntables   I recently purchased a Pickering ESV 3000 MM cartridge that arrived in the mail yesterday and I had to ask myself, "what am I doing?"  So with that being said, why the fascination?  If one want to change the sound of the table, start with the cartridge, they all do sound different.  Nowadays the tables and arms are so good and engineered based on the earlier designs and bettered.  Also, when you buy say an older used arm, how do you know its been cared for?  Arms bearings can be screwed up pretty bad when one tries to tighten cartridges with the headshell attached to the tonearm or the tonearm mounted on the table and many people do not even know they are destroying their arms bearings so I mean you really have to know who you are getting the arm from and check the bearings etc.  There is a lot of risk with turntables, much more than with any components because of so many moving parts that do get old and break.  Why the fascination? 
tzh21y

Showing 6 responses by cleeds

cleeds
6,070 posts
 
lewm
. Cleeds, do you really think the AR turntable was one of the best available in days of yore?
No, it was never the best. But when it first came out in the '60s, it was a whole lot better than much of the competition. That's why its design became classic and widely imitated.
cleeds
6,070 posts
 
It looks like my candid remark about the inferiority of the Garrard Zero-100 turntable (in response to @dweller) really ruffled some feathers. That wasn’t my intent, and the remark wasn’t personal.

I think it’s great that there are those who restore old turntables, or explore vintage phono cartridges from the LP’s golden era. I can attest that many of these were great products. After all, they were what we were using back then.

But here’s the sad truth. A great many turntables, pickup arms and phono cartridges from the ’60s and 70s were abysmally awful. They were designed to a price for those who didn’t care - or didn’t care much - about fidelity. And even some of the better products - such as the AR turntable - were badly compromised. In the case of the AR, it was the pickup arm that was not-so-good. And I’m being kind.

Yes, after restoration the best of the vintage equipment still stands the test of time. But that’s a tiny fraction of the universe of vintage LP playback gear. I’m not saying today’s new gear is always better - some of the Crosleys looks like they were modeled after BSRs of yesteryear. But let’s not over-romanticize the past. One of the main reasons the compact disc was such an instant hit was that so many of its early adopters were using those awful turntable setups. You can’t blame them for wanting to dump ’em.


cleeds
6,070 posts
 
dweller
... I'd like to find a mint Garrard Zero-100 -something from my youth. Was really "spiffy"!
Ugh. That was one awful turntable.
cleeds
6,070 posts
 
chakster

You must a be a rich guy if you’re buyin’ new cartridges everytime you want to experiment with different cart or tonearm. If you never tried vintage carts or arms then your experience is very limited. But i believe you may tried them long time ago if you were active back in the 80s ?
I was an active audiophile in the ’80s, and the ’70s, too. Now as then, I’m not really interested in experimenting with phono cartridges and pickup arms. I buy very high quality stuff, and stay with it. My arm is an SME V that I’ve had for more than 25 years. I don’t feel any need to try another arm. Some guys like to fiddle about with arms and cartridges and that’s fine, of course. I’m in it for the music and not for chasing some elusive and dubious improvement.

As for buying this stuff used: I don’t buy used tires for my car. By the same reasoning, I’d never buy a used phono cartridge and would even be suspicious of one labeled "NOS." A pickup arm is too fragile for me to consider buying used. I’m glad not everyone feels the same way, though. I sold my previous arm (Fidelity Research FR-64fx) to a buddy who still uses it. It sounds as great as ever.
cleeds
6,070 posts
 
artemus_5
The whole craze started when a post went viral about making a great TT for$100 spent at Home Despot.
What post was that? I have no recollection of it.
cleeds
6,070 posts
 
To an extent, I can understand the appeal of the best of the older turntables. But buying a used pickup arm or phono cartridge is something I’d never consider, and for the exact reasons you state. You just don’t know what you’re getting and it’s too late by the time you figure it out. I guess it’s fun for those who like to fiddle about with their setups, but I’d rather listen to music than play with old phono cartridges and experiment with delicate devices that have an uncertain past.
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