Just for kicks, take a look at the digital source that is being used to drive custom built tube preamp / custom built tube monoblocks / custom built speakers at CES / T.H.E. Show. Obviously, some people do feel that the SACD 1000 is capable of being used at reference level and are willing to bet the reputation of their entire product line on it by using it as a source for their system at a show of this calibre. Here's a picture of one of my other transports being used as a reference for another system. It is a G&D Transforms Ultimate TransPort-1 aka UTP-1. My guess is that this is the system that Bob Crump / John Curl / Carl Thompson of CTC Builders has set up to demonstrate the $10,000 CTC Blowtorch preamp ( located below the "Flintstone looking" G&D ), which is probably feeding a pair of their Parasound / CTC Builders JC-1 Monoblocks. From what i've been told by reliable sources, the JC-1's are probably the best buy in high end amplification at this point in time. I know that the JC-1's have replaced some highly respected OTL's in one system and even some $40,000 SS amps in another with the owners never looking back. The JC-1's also seem to be an excellent match for the big SoundLab's too from what i understand. Not bad for amps that list for around $6K a pair. Sean > |
Totally agree, sorry IA , had no right to criticize your spelling. Lets get back to helping each other. Apologies to all. |
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S_an and Kana813, I think me and you two have done enough typing... It's ok, just forget it... I just gotta get out... Like you said, it's just forums... We all learned a lesson... Yes, it's just forums... Keep it peaceful and chill... Really gotta get out... Rest away from here... Happy New Year! |
Shall we all be peaceful... It's cool... Just a thread.. Just a thread... Later (Happy NY) |
IA: I agree with your initial comments about the SACD 1000's tonal balance. I stated much the same thing in my very first post about the unit i.e. it had a strong bottom end and lacked top end extension and "air". Obviously, these were my results with the unit taken directly out of the box and installed into a system that was not "optimized" for this component. Up to this point, we are on the same page here and this is where things begin to diverge.
After that initial post, i began experimenting with my system. With further tweaking and refining of what was already there, i was able to minimize the deficiencies in the system. Prior to this, i had primarily blamed much of what i was hearing on the SACD 1000, as the introduction of this piece into the system surely did change the performance that i was experiencing. The fact that the SACD 1000 was also improving from break-in during this period of time surely didn't hurt matters either or lessen my opinion of it.
While i'm not done experimenting with the system or the SACD 1000, the changes that i've made to the system ( which i noted what it consisted of part for part in a prior thread ) have resulted in a far more transparent and natural sounding reproduction chain. Obviously, this is with the SACD 1000 acting as the Captain and barking orders down the line. As many others may realize, one system or mode of operation may not work that great when other changes are made. Kind of like working for one boss and then having someone else take over the company.
The new boss may seem like he has his head up his ass initially and the way that they want things done may be very different. As such, it would be easy to jump to early conclusions that were incorrect in nature since only part of the plan had been implemented. In the long run, when all of the changes have been fully implemented, fully understood and running as a whole, the end result may be increased efficiency for every aspect of operation. This is true even though one might have initially thought that everything was going down the drain. That is what i ran into with the SACD 1000 once i let ALL of the system changes and those within the SACD 1000 itself run their course.
Given the lack of consistency in your posts, the reduced level of understanding that you displayed about the unit itself and how to set it up in your system, etc... it was VERY easy to jump to conclusions about your level of understanding how "systems" work and how willing you were to work with the product to obtain optimum results from it in stock form. The fact that your story seemed to change along the way didn't help matters either.
As to your comments about the price of the unit, that never entered my mind. My comments about the performance of a unit are not based on price, brand name, reputation, cosmetics, etc... I try to forget about all of that and simply let the product do its' thing as best possible and judge it on its' own sonic merits. As such, i stand by my statements that the SACD 1000 is a very solid performer when one's system is optimized to work with it and that it would be an excellent candidate for further internal upgrades and modifications.
As to whether or not you agree or disagree with me on any of the points i've tried to bring up here, that is up to you. I never tried to make this a personal thing. What i did try to do was get to the bottom of the information being presented, the consistency of the information and how that information came about. You were simply the carrier of that information. I would have done the same thing to anyone else that said what you did in the manner that it was presented.
Either way, i hope that you enjoy the system(s) that you have and continue to contribute to these forums. I would also add that you might want to update / correct / separate the components that you are running in each of your systems as listed on Agon. The way that you have the information presented now could only lead to further confusion if someone was researching what your point of system / musical reference was.
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Jeff: My intent was to demonstrate that i'm actively involved with this "hobby", have been an avid audiophile / supporter of audio related subjects and am very much a "hands on" kind of person. I thought that knowing a bit of background about me might help to better qualify some of my statements within your mind.
Having said that, I had assumed that you had not read all of IA's comments in other threads and that is why i suggested it. One could surmise ( and your further comments verify this ) that your original input to this thread was based on a lack of information or "jumping to conclusions". As such, i would ask that you DO examine the other Agon SACD 1000 based threads to see exactly what was going on here. At the same time, you might be able to learn more about the SACD 1000 by reading some other, more diverse opinions than those presented on AA. If nothing less, you might be able to pass on the info to your friend or have him stop by here to share his results and insight with the rest of us that are curious about this unit.
And one thing further: I do need to chill out. I've got a lot more important things to worry about than what is discussed on this forum. Sean
>
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"I ain't posting nothing no more, cant breathe... Gotta get out"
Infinity_audio
Please.......Please tell me it's true!
Every thread I go to...
he's there...whining and moaning,and defending himself...his system..his speakers...his relationship with very important "Audio types"...his grammer...his status as a reviewer...his diction...his spelling (or his lack of it)...his computer keyboard....his sister...and yes, even his very right to exist !!
If you want to act like the 14 year olds on AOL chatrooms...then PLEASE...go THERE.... and do it!!!
Now....about thoes SACD 1000 interconnects?
|
Thanks Jeff. Very nuetral. |
Sean,
You act like I insulted you personally. You do not need to post a list of your "credentials" as an AA member. I'm not sure what all that "I was first" info is supposed to mean to me.
The ONLY point I was making was that IA was correct about this device being merely good as a CD player. I have heard my friend's in both his system and mine. It is veiled in its transparency and overly warm in its overall presentation. Those are the ONLY items with which and th e ONLY reasons for which I agreed with IA.
As far as your other arguements with him, take them up with him. I read most of them in this thread, not the other threads, and here, it looked like everyone was personally attacking him because his opinion differed from theirs. That is childish and self-absorbed. What happened in other threads, I could care less. I was not backing him because I liked him.
Have a nice day and chill out!
Jeff |
Well, let me tell you guys (Delicated to Se_n & K_na813). I own the first couple SCD-1s that has arrive in the US. Mike Denvoke installed the entire system for me since he's the very very first few people to have the first couple of SCD-1s. I have also posted a review here about 2 years or so ago about how Mike Denvoke brought this wonderful unit into my life. I even had a link for all the visitors to see my system, back in the time, they were 4x Mc275 with Marantz 7 driving my Custom Focal Project, which is still the same speaker Im using for my main system. Very beautiful DIY piece made by a few Malaysian International Audio Club members. Excellent Ebony finish. Cost me $3000.00 just to get the wood needed... I also have a picture of the SCD-1 and another picture with it's chassis opened. It's funny that no one knew what the hack SCD-1 was at that time and all response I got were all ended with a question mark! I have never read the manual, since Mike introduced me this player and set up everything for me (Filter always at the highest as checked last week) as well he taught me everything verbally . As he has a distribution dealership and he gets the very very first few units. He sold me one with a serial number: 09-000007 whcih as he told me that 09 stands for US Market and the 000007 means this is the 7th one within the first US shipment. At that time, I didn't know what the hack SCD-1 was, and I was suprised by it's craftmanship and it's stunning performance. Believe me or not, I went to the bank the next day and handed him a $4500.00 Cashier's Check. I have been having this unit for so long, which my SACD collection grew to a point that I cant survive without a SACD player in my bedroom. That's why I bought the SACD1000. I was upset that this unit was kinda hyped up and it's performance was just a "okay", not as how others decribed. Well from $1599 down to $399, haha... sounded like a joke to me, there gotta be some stories behind rite? Dont tell me that it cost less than $200 to make them units. I wouldn't believe so. and I wouldnt believe those guys out there are willing to earn less than 10% each layer they go through! Why do they want to get rid of them so soon with a price this low? As I asked Mike, New series is coming out, and apparently Philips SACD1000 was not as suceeded as the others and was suffering from overstocking as well as massive merchandise return. IF SACD1000 is such a good player at it's $1500 class, it would've all be sold with no problem. Sony DVP-S9000ES too, suffered a major price drop but it was never as serious as SACD1000. At least DVP-S9000ES had a support point at $799, only a 45% price drop instead of 80%. There got to be a reason why SACD1000 was NOT selling well! Other Sony SACD models were selling okay. Look, SACD1000's price dropped abnormally around 80%, SCD-1 and SCD-777 price drop was only 25% which is quite normal. This also tell us something...
However, for Tweeter price, $399 I would've pick up two of them if the seller I got it from had more! They are perfect for secondary system. *Laugh* (((((haha.. yes I have a pair of Fluence, but they were highly modified with Solen Cap, Solo chokes and Cardas wires. Pretty fun project for a few hundred bucks. I have always use them for bedroom HT since they are nothing but a pair of mass-produced speakers for loud HT sound.)))))
I judged SACD1000's sound with a $1500 class mind because it's MSRP is $1599, and was expecting competitors from the same price range. I heard people are actually telling others to look at it as a $400.00 CDP? What the hack? This player was selling at $1599 MSRP. IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE TREATED LIKE A $1500 PLAYER. Dont let the price drop fool your mind! Whoever set the MSRP (Philips) should consider both the competitions and it's performance before it was set? Well obviously it wasnt well estimated because price dropped like hell. Once again, What would be the reason with these players not being sold as well as other SACD players out there? Think...
I never ever said it was a bad unit. All I said was that it's performance was just not so stunning. Rolled off hi and less defined bottom. Soundstage kinda up front... Darn, next thing I saw was all Se_n and K_na813's reports echoing left and right trying to laugh at my review like parrots, and less relavently, made fun of my spelling and grammer. (Very phreaking nice of them) A product, gotta have their bad sides and good sides. Sometimes people like their good sides and careless about the bad sides. As well, some just hates their bad sides but doesnt really care much about the good sides. A product might sound right here in your system, but might not sound right in another system. What I am trying to say is, like "Socrates" said earlier in this thread. People buy the product because they think they are great. You bought it, of cox you love it... There are also people who dont want to buy that certain product because they think it sucks. Certain products will have both supporters (usually people who bought them) and bad-mouth-er (usually people who DIDNT buy them but tried them and think they suck). Well, maybe both Se_n and K_na813 own a piece; thats probably why they are being so sensitive with my SACD1000 review and attacked all over the threads trying to hunt me down or something. Yes! all over! Here and there "Cables" and "Digital" column in few different threads!
I was able to judge the SACD1000 within the $1500 price range (SACD1000 MSRP $1599) even though I got it for $400.00 and was brave enough to post a review up here in Audiogon trying to share what I got. Maybe someone who can open up will listen or take it as a reference/advice. Don't be so narrow minded. Listen to what others have to say. Dont just go insane if one said something you disagree! Thread Forum is for us audiophile to discuss, to post audio-related articles; not BS stuffs like picking on people, laughing at their grammer and English those non-audio-related stupid 14 yrs old time-killer... If there is no one, ever posted any negative feedback about a product. How can you know whether this product is good or bad? All up here in audiogon will be only positive posting because people who ecperienced ATTACKS will quit posting their opinions here. Then no one will ever find out bad sides of the product that they are planning to spend 5000 dollars on. I am sure they wanna hear both the product's good side as well as their bad sides before purchasing. Seriously, people like them two really scare new comer away from Audiogon Thread Forum!
Anyways, I didn't have to explain so much to everybody, I also didn't really want to be mean, things have limit, but all these days, it seems like Se_n & K_na813 was having fun picking on me. Even other outsider couldn't stand this happened and have said something for me. "Socrates", 10,000 thanks! I think what you said are great. As long as I know someone's with me... Let them stupid ones trying to act like 14 yrs old AOL members in a chat room ganging up on some new comer... I ain't posting nothing no more, cant breathe... Gotta get out
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Socrates: Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Nobody is denying that right. If you have a problem with what i've posted or why i've posted something, so be it. Do both of us a favour and let me know. You can post it here or send it to me privately. Either way, i'll do my best to respond AND try to understand your point of view.
Following that same line of advice ( what's good for the goose... ), i did the same thing with IA. Since he has not responded to the majority of questions / comments that i brought to his attention, he's either been caught red-handed in a bunch of inconsistent lies ( as to what equipment he really does own, what equipment was used to evaluate the SACD 1000 that he supposedly purchased, etc...) or is simply too embarrassed by his own words / actions that have been collected in this forum and within his member feedback to even respond.
The fact that he has responded to other comments made by other individuals tells me that he still frequents this forum and reads these same threads. Draw your own conclusions as to how believable his comments really are. Before doing so though, i would ask that you read ALL of his comments regarding the SACD 1000 and try to keep that in perspective prior to passing judgment.
Now, i have one question for you based on your own words:
"Not everyone here is a American flag waving, WASP, high-brow yuppie prick with years of prep schools rhetoric training under their belt."
What makes you think that one has to be:
1) A "patriot" i.e. "flag waver"
2) A "WASP"
3) "high brow"
4) A "Yuppie"
5) Well Educated
to have drawn the conclusions that they did about any specific subject, let alone what IA has posted ? I'd love to hear how you arrived at such wording and the thought process that it took to get there.
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Kana: Obviously, not all people can read the same text and walk away with the same meaning or level of understanding. To me, it was very clear that IA's posts were extremely inconsistent and loaded with flaws. The fact that he thought that his equipment might "blow up" if using the SACD 1000 at the 50 KHz setting told me a lot. If IA really had an SCD-1, you would have thought that he might have at least a little understanding of what was involved with setting up this type of equipment. Then again, one would have to be observant enough to put 2 + 2 together to even think about such things and tie the two subjects together.
The fact that he went out of his way to rave about the "very high quality" of some $269 Ebay speakers should have been a little more obvious to anyone reading these threads and his system description.
Many people take comments at face value without looking at why / how those comments came about or who made the comments to begin with. I am not one of those people and i guess you aren't either : ) Thanks for paying attention and the words of support. Sean
>
PS... I've always said that one should buy what they like and want to listen to, regardless of what the general consensus of the product is. I still believe that and hope that most of you do too. |
Interesting how these threads can get off the original purpose.
Sean tries to share some positive information aimed at increasing the performance of a piece of equipment with a lot of potential and the dark side of the force takes over.
When put down my $350. for a SACD 1000, I didnt expect
anything other a solidly built machine. With a few hundred hours on it, Im more than pleased with the sound. It sounds good with the interconnects Ive tried on it, and its never sounded anything like IA describes.
IAs system shows he has a Sony SCD-1, yet he compares the SACD1000 to a MSB Link DAC II, and says,the MSB totally blew the new SACD1000 away!
In other threads IA continues to pan the SACD 1000s performance and questions its value.
Hey,if youve got a Sony SCD-1, then sell the bugger and focus on improving some other part of your system.
The rest of us are looking for constructive input on ways to improve the SACD 1000 and I appreciate people like Sean taking the time to share his manao with us.
Aloha. |
So a person is not allowed to change their opinion on gear? I should be shot, too, then. During the course of an evaluation my opinion can sway greatly from the first moment I hear it play until a few weeks later once it (or my ears) have settled down, as the newness wears off and the traits are more easily identifiable. I run through a lot of gear and may find something very shortly after that initial impression which eats it alive and that will shift my perspective, too....but only if I am 'allowed' to change my opinion, I suppose. I also stick to my guns with appraisals, for afterall it is strictly related to my system and my ears.
I think Jeffrt and myself just see this as a witch hunt from owners of the piece that have taken childish personal offense. Happens all the time, drives a lot of folks off of the BBs. Further, while we're venting, the attacks against a persons spelling and grammar just make the attackers look like @sses to me. Not everyone here is a American flag waving, WASP, high-brow yuppie prick with years of prep schools rhetoric training under their belt, or simply even have english as their native language for that matter! Get over yourselves. |
Jeffrt: If you haven't already done so, please try reading ALL of IA's posts regarding the SACD 1000. For a good start, you might want to start here. I have no problems with dissenting opinions so long as they are actually legit and have some form of foundation ( first hand experience, technical details, etc..). As far as AA goes, I was one of the original founding members of the forum and have contributed quite a bit of info to both the AA forums ( primarily in the past ) and the actual funding of operations. I went so far as to sponsor and run two different fund-raisers to help support that website. If you doubt this, take a look at the list of contributors and see how many times my name comes up. For the record, i was actually the very first person to contribute and support that site. If you don't believe me, ask Rod. As such, I could post the same material on either website. Personally, i find the constant quarrels and high level of negativity on AA to be bothersome. This is not to say that i haven't started my fair share of "ruckus" with specific individuals ( primarily Stereophile employees ), but this was done not on a personal but professional level. I also don't need to see a dozen+ posts a day in the digital or Hi-Rez forums that are nothing more than SACD is better than DVD-A or vice-versa or Rich doing nothing more than putting everyone / everything down. I've been down that road and talked to Rod, Stephaen, etc... and they've more than got their hands full. As such, i prefer to post / contribute to these forums. It is a little more laid back ( this is a good thing ) and doesn't have quite the knowledge base via professional input but is also typically more consistent in the views presented. Since Infinity Audio was anything BUT consistent in his point of view, THAT is why he was called to task. He or anyone else can present their point of view and say that a component is a piece of junk or has specific flaws. I've done it more than a few times and probably will again. One does not have to agree with everything presented here to post or share a point of view. The fact that Infinity started his own thread about the inadequacies of the unit, then started another thread on his own shortly thereafter stating that he was happy with the unit and then produced more negative posts shortly after that about the unit is what bothers me. That and the fact that he has changed his story about what he's using as support components several times. As such, it's hard to get a grip on where he's coming from, let alone believe what he's posting. As far as the SACD 1000 goes, i've never stated that it was a "world class" unit. I've said that i thought it was solid performer and had a lot of potential. Is that anything different than what has been said at AA ??? Sean > |
Folks,
If you are happy with your SACD 1000, then fine. However, don't knock Infinity for sharing his opinion. Please do not consider his opinion as a personal attack AND do NOT attack him because his opinion is different from yours.
What he states is the general consensus among many people with very transparent systems. This machine is a great value at $400; it was a good value at $1000. At its original MSRP of $2000, it was sadly mediocre but full of features: DVD, CD and SACD.
Infinity,
Stop wasting your time with people whose systems are not as transparent as yours. I'd suggest you take yourself over to Audio Asylum for a more balanced approach to audio. |
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Brainwater-
I couldn't agree more with your comments! Even ignoring his poorly-assembled collection of misspelled words, Infinity_audio's dribble should be considered nothing more than amusement. His "reviews" (what pomposity!), at least those regarding the Philips SACD 1000, are mutually-contradictory, each one apparently influenced by whatever side of the rug on which he finds himself when he awakens.
I, too, make mistakes, but I've never thought to blame them on a "bad kayboard"! Gotta give him credit for inventiveness, if for nothing else!
jp |
Have you have enough education from both your school and your teacher about being nice with the people who made mistake? This thread is for people to discuss, it's not for you to make fun of people. If you continue this behavior, I will notify Audiogon staff and have your membership taken away. |
I am glad that I am amusing you while I have typos all around due to a bad kayboard. Let me ask you Brainwater... Have you ever made a mistake while you type? Would you like it when people make fun of you? |
proble?????????? Not only can it be a little difficult to understand if even YOU know what you are talking about , but what is even more amusing is reading your copious commentary whereby you misspell words at an alarming rate. Youre funny and a little sad but I get a huge laugh reading what you have to say Mr Audio. Bathe us in your acumen. |
Not ONLY I have the same proble, look into OTHER THREADS before you bad mouthing me. |
Infinity audio- My Philips 1000 sounds nothing like you
describe. Maybe it's the rest of your system or your room.
Why don't you just sell it and stop bad mouthing it. |
Philips is more thick and less-define from mid to bottom, over weight bottom with dim/dark top... Soundstage... sigh... no depth whatsoever... |
I have an other review forum in audiogon about the SACD1000 you can take a look at. Since the SACD sound is: narrow/shallow soundstange with limited extreme high & low frequence; yet warm midrange but slow in speed. Use some speedy and punchy cables like XLO and MIT. Never use warm cables! Email me if you have an question. |
I'm using Randall Research Symmetrical TX, and with some extensive burn-in on the 1000, the sound is well balanced.
I never found any lack of definition in the bass and
was impressed right out the box by the 1000's performance
on acoustic bass.
The unit still lacks the air and open soundstaging of my custom DAC, but I think some key part replacement/upgrades
and bypassing will open things up. Just waiting for my local
IEEE to confirm/spec some parts before I pop the hood.
Mele Kalikimaka. |
