What Does It Take To Surpass A SME V?

@neonknight : So, during LP playback the 3.18uS in the inverse RIAA eq. curve  in the phono stage " stop " the fall down to infinite of HF that’s how it comes in the LPs.

Other that one of your units comes to my memory that Top of the line Dartzeel phonolinepreamp comes with the 3.18uS too along other units out there.

 

R.

Dear @neonknight  : The 3.18uS in the inverse RIAA eq. is way controversial for say the least.

My phonolinepreamp comes with the option to use it or not, your choice.

 

The key word/question for an audiophile to use it or not is not if it's inaudible or if it's because this depends directly of which high resolution has your system. If your system has the kind levels of true high resolution then you will know for sure.

Now, the cutting head in the recording proccess can't follows over 50khz-60khz because it burns-in but the de-emphasis RIAA curve says to goes to infinite over that HF range mentioned and that's no posible then in the recording proccess exist a " stop " limit in frequency to avoid the cutting head burn-in and the LPs comes withthat " stop limit " when the inverse RIAA eq. in a normal phono stage goes to infinite.

As all in audio always exist treade-offs and after " thousands " of tests with I decided to use that 3.18uS with out no  trade-offs I could detect even today but benefits.

 

Now, each manufacturer/designer of phono stages design not exactly in the same way and in some the phase anomalies could be listened or not depends how was implemented. In my unit is totally transparent for the better and at the end it's in that way how the LPs comes.

 

Your choice,

R.

Dear @neonnigth : I can read in the forum that you still are alittle distressed by the MC2000 tonearm to match it.

 

You own the SME V with a good EM ( 10gr. ) for that cartridge and can buy a Reed 3P 9.5" teak arm wand that comes with lower EM ( 8gr. ) than the V and will mate well too.

The VIV for that very high compliance is a mistake as is the 505 that I owned but at the end is your $$$$$ and your sound MUSIC listening targets.

 

R.

Dear @mulveling  : The Verissimo comes with diamond cantilever and the MC2000 with aluminum and my re-tipped cartridge has a ruby cantilever.

I don't doubt what you say . Yes, my VDH experience had boron cantilever and in an audiophile place that happened with his Titan i.

 

R.

Dear @neonknight  : " A person bought a new Ortofon Verismo and at the twenty hour mark decided to dust the table and ended up removing the diamond from the cantilever. "

My experiences about and from other audiophiles tells me that's almost imposibel to the stylus tip " been removed " from the cantilever with out any damage to the cantilever.

When  the MC2000 started t been in the market some owners claimed to Ortofon because after " 20 hours " the stylus tip just disappeared " and Ortofon took care about and obviously made the change for a new cartridge with no charge to the owners, this happened with the MC5000 but when the Anna came in the market same situation happened and as always Ortooooofon took care about. There are other similar experiences with the Bronze and I experienced other than Ortofon with VDH and one cartridge that came for a re-tipper ( A.Kim. ).

Rigth now to late but the original owner could has the Verissimo changed by Ortofon with the original Replicat 100. Yes some re-tippers say they have it but I know that are Replicant 100 and Ortofon REPLICANT 100.

Good that for a while you will follow with the V tonearm.

 

R.

Dear @neonknight  : Do you took a decision about?

 

R.

@peterayer  . I think that could be a good idea to make a test in your room/system and this test is to listen the Rega RP-10 ( truly inexpensive for you at around 5.5K. ) with your today cartridges and find out which kind of differences you beeen aware vs your analog rig in use.

 

After the test you can put on sale and will goes fast or maybe you decide to keep it. A the end is just a subjective test as you like.

 

R.

Dear @peterayer  :  " There are measurements and there is listening.  People choose what sounds right to them.  "

 

I posted several times that when an audiophile says: " that's what I like it " then the dialogue is just ended because what we like is untouchable subjectivity and useless argue against it.

I gave you some 3012R characteristics that goes against the sounds reproduction og the LP recorded grooves not matters what.

Well, certainly for you it does not matters and difference with me is that those characteristics that goes against the quality reproduction levels tells me is not a good choice to achieve my MUSIOC/SOUND target that's stay truer/nearer to the recording. My common sense is what analizing subjectivity/objectivity takes the rigth choose according my end target.

You can't prove with subjectivity alonethat you are rigth even f  you are rigth that you are notttttttsing the 3012R.

That's what you like and is clear for me but   issue is not that.

 

In the other side your room/system speaks for your subjectivity or maybe the " objectivity "/$ of the ones that just  made with your system a change of 180°  when you pass from SS to tubes electronics, from dynamic/moving coil speakers to vintage horns, from SME TT to that way heavy weigth metal TT and so on. Nothing wrong with that because ws and is your choice privilege as for any one of us.

I think that a mix of subjectivity/obejectivity is a very good path for any audiophile, certainly not for you and its fine with me.

 

Anyway, continue your MUSIC enjoyment as I and other audiophiles like to do because the name of the game is " MUSIC enjoyment no matters what.

 

R.

 

 

Dear @dgarretson ​@peterayer : Thank’s for the link.

Now, even that’s not exactly the same the today SME M2-12R is theSME 3012R response where mainly they fixed the main " trouble " in the vintage tonearm because in the M2 there is no knife bearing any more along that SME improved the internal damping and internal wire.

 

Other than the good look 12" tonearms really can’t gives us a true advantages even its lower tracking error. This example speaks by it self.

Löfgren A IEC standard. Tracking distortion in between/around null points for a 12" against what for me could be the best EL compromise 10.5" and against 9" too:

 

12 "....... 0.420%

10.5"... 0.485%

9"........ 0.58%

 

Who in this thread can detect: 0.065% or 0.16% against the 9" difference?

I know I can’t do it. We have to take in count too that at each single mm. the tracking distortion is changing all over the LP recorded grooves:

 

same premises but 1mm. after:

12"....0.419% vs 0.420% 1mm. before, difference of 0.001% tracking distortion that even a bat can’t be aware of it.

Those measurements are when the cartridge/tonearm alignment has 100% of accuraccy ! !

 

So where is the 12" big deal? along that this is what the SAT designer says about in favor of shorter arms vs 12"+ ones:

 

 

Makes sense the 12" EL tonearm design other that its look?, certainly not for me.

 

and we have to think in the higher inertia moment in the 12" and its effect in the cartridge stylus tip/cantilever by that added dynamic mass that needs to handle along all the LP imperfections.

 

 

THAT GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND YOUR DEAREST FAMILY IN THIS NEW    

2 0 2 3   YEAR   !  !  !

 

Sincerely,

 

R.

 

 

 

Dear @dgarretson  : Nice to " see " you again, in many threads we need you.

 

" livelier ", well that's exactly what SAEC owners including me think about those double knife tonearm designs.

 

As a fact I owned 3 SAEC's and I bougth due to the comments of Japanese audiophiles opinions I found out elsewhere including the advertasing through the USA distributor Japanese Stereo in CA ( seveal years ago ) and those opinions came in comparison between the SAEC 506/8000 vs the Micro Seiki MAX 237/282 that I owned too and those audiophiles said exactly the same as you for the 3012R and the Kuzma where for the Japanese the Kuzma was the MAX 237/282.

 

That's why I bougth the SAEC's when I already owned the Micro Seiki's and yes the SAEC was " livelier " and the MAX tonearms just as your opinion of the Kuzma till I learned first from where came that " livelier " and second why the MAX was really a superior tonearms.

The livelier came from the knife bearing with its tiny " rattle " and in the other side that the SAEC's are not a well damped design: more or less like the 3012R.

When I learned and even that the SAEC's looks just great and were build with a very high quality levels I prefers the MAX all the way down and till today. The MAX is perhaps one of the best tonearem designs and along the Lustre GT-801 the only dynamic baknce design that just does not ring like a bell with its VTF set up mechanism..

 

Even that great MAX/Lustre dynamic balance characteristics I ended using both through gravity forces that's the natural way for VTF.

Dgarretson, as I said before each one of us like what we like, it's our privilege.

Welcomed,

R.

Dear @dover  : I don't think no-one else can win what is my take on any audio thread is that all of us are winners with no loosers at all.

 

In a thread if you confirm that what you know is confirmed by other gentlemans then you win because now you are more sure your knowledge is in the rigth side but if things are that what you know in reality is wrong through other gentlemans posts you still win  because you can go out of your " error/mistake " and a third possibility is that in an audio subject " suddenly " through other gentlemans posts you took in count that you leraned something new.

 

In all those scenarios you win and no one lost nothing.

 

R.

Dear @peterayer : my mistake in my last post: " it’s not a VTF balance design " and should say: it's not a dynamic VTF design.

 

Yes, I remember your thread about and if you re-read my posts down there say almost the same with the additional issue of the external arm pod that per se could change everything.

 

Each one of us like some kind of distortions/color and nothing wrong with that but in an unbiased way affirm that the 3012R is superior to the V12 has no sense due to several disadvantages with the vintage one but if only one disadvantage could be enough is the different tonearm bearing design in favor of the V12.

 

R.

syntax or not syntax you can't win.

Dear @peterayer : You don’t specified under wich analog rig scenario you made your tonearm comparisons.

Ideally comparisons must be doing using same TT/cartridge/phono stage, well same audio system.

 

It’s normal that 3 different tonearms with the same cartridge performs in the reproduced sounds in a different way with different kind of developed distortions/COLOR and is up to each one of us priorities in MUSIC at home but here maybe there are other cartridge surrounded room/systems differences in between.

Stand alone the 3012R is the one with more differences between the other two: it’s not a VTF balance design, it use steel build material instead magnesium, bearing is different two using knife/ball and not well damped as the other two. For me the 3012 is the one that develops the higher distortions and nothing wrong with that if it’s what you like but with out any kind of preference bias the 3012 R is the worst one and today not true competitive if what we want is stay truer to the recordings.

 

R.

 

FALSE, I do not posted that: " you mentioned ".

I can’t see any " insult " and yes there is no " best " tonearm.

 

What ’s wrong with the word " win " that certainly is not my target in any thread. I posted several times that an audio forum is " win " to " win " with no loossers at all.

 

R.

 

 

@lewm  , it was not. What I posted happened, it's his style: post after post till he think already win but in this isue has no reason to post and post and post and all because his friend and because he think is " the best tonearm " outthere. He has knowledge in tube electronic but certainly is not in that way with cartridges or tonearms, at least not as he think.

 

Lewm you only have to re-read again his statement in that post to know he is totally wrong:

 

" Back in the old days when the SME5 was first made, there were only three top arms; the SME5, the Graham unipivot and the Triplanar. "

 

In those times as today the Graham unipivot as all unipivots was a " terrible " tonearm ( a copy of the Audiocraft unipivot. ) but in those times were all the top Japanese tonearm designs where even today the Tri can't compete with.

 

So, lewm: waht are you talking about?

 

In the other side I'm not saying a negative comment on the Tri, things are that there are better tonearms andthat's all.

Facts speaks by its self.

 

R.

 

R

 

 

Only a few months ago after you posted in other thread your Tri advice: Mike Lavigne said not reallly good tonearm and I know he knew why but you don't still today.

 

R.

Dear @neonknight  : If you are satisfied with the V then stay with, however if it's the first V generation maybe could be fine that be checked for an expert to confirm if it's still in today V operation condition.

 

R.

Triplanar can't compete vs MAX 237 and I know that you have not the Proteus but an old one but as with the V are audiophiles that like the Tri. as like Schroeder or the Reed or the Kuzma or the OL, or this one where M.Fremer in his SAT DD XD-1 100K TT/SAT tonearm compared vs the RP 10 that comes mounted with this tonearm and Fremer mated with Lyra Atlas, Anna by Ortofon and some other top cartridges:

 

https://www.rega.co.uk/products/rb3000

 

R.

Dear @neonknight : You can up-grade your " old " V with a new silver ( Audio Note UK silver wire.. ) internal rewirig that this time goes with connectors directly to your phono stage.

 

Other alternative and very hard to beat is that with the same recomended " treatment " look for the MAX -237 with the J removable headshell, an excellent tonearm.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.