What Does It Take To Surpass A SME V?

Just a little real life experience. For many years (1970s and 80s) I had a SME 3012 on a Thorens player. Then, I changed to a VPI HW-19, and the Souther / Clearaudio Triquartz parallell arm. Despite a huge amount of tweaking, this combination never worked out for me. An audio friend commented, its like a skate slipping this way and that in the track. So, I changed to a SME V in 2004, and have been quite happy ever since. It performed better than the Triquartz on the VPI, and even better on the Hanss T30 (from 2014) using magnetic bearing instead of springs. I mainly used Lyra carts (Clavis, Titan, Atlas). My impression is that SME V + Lyra Atlas + a stable (not spring-suspended) player = quite good. Like, "no worry" good. I have experimented with some more weight on the arm, and some oil in the damper reservoir, etc, but have basically gone back to ’default’. By the way, I am allergic to pitch problems, since I play the flute, and the Hanss T30 (six strings, two motors) is quite good (= not a big problem), while the VPI HW-19 was problematic, even with all the upgrades + SDS power.

The best thing I ever did  for my system, regardless of player, arm etc, was to mount a support in the basement right beneath the stereo rack with the player in our living and listening room. Cost ca nothing. Before, when I jumped in front of my player, the cart would skip. After, almost never.

neonknight - my SME V was made in October 1999. In 2016 I asked SME about service and upgrade. Answer: unless something wrong, maybe not needed. But for 555 pounds they would do a full service + testing + new internal wire (silver litz van den Hul). I thought it was fair, but I checked the arm myself, found no obvious problems, and have never done it. Likewise, the phono cable stays the same, Kimber KCAG soldered to the DIN plug to the arm (a bit tricky). I borrowed a Hovland cable but heard only marginal improvement over the Kimber. Never tried a balanced phono cable. My phono stage can take this, but the general debate is that it does not matter much unless there are problems with single ended (the Io’s first gain stage is not truly balanced, anyway).

What HAS made a big difference to me, lately: 1) I was lucky, getting a quad of excellent ultra low noise Telefunken in the critical first gain stage of the Io, 2) fine-tuning the azimuth with a Fozgometer, plus other small cartridge adjustments, and 3) working more with speaker positioning. Small "boring" things that can add up to a lot. All in the service of a more quiet, stable, balanced dimensional stereo image.

The Hanss T30 is an entirely different animal compared to my VPI hw19 mk4, and my short verdict is "better". I agree with you regarding the VPI motors. In this and other respect the Hanss is clearly superior (although the SDS is perhaps the best power control, or at least more convenient to adjust, compared to the little box that comes with the Hanss). To compare the two, I recorded to DSD on my Tascam DA-3000. So I could A-B switch, comparing pitch, timbre etc. The Hanss won out. Someone wrote that Hanss cannot really rock (a Townshend player was better), but it has never bothered me. A friend of mine has the bigger brother, the T60, and it has a bit more deep bass and explosive dynamics than my T30, but these are basically similar-sounding designs. I have never heard Scheu, or even SOTA. I got a T30 demo for a very good price (ca usd 2800) ten years ago and have basically stopped looking for another player. I like the ideas behind the Hanss design, and find that they work well, like two motors, totally isolated from the player, strings pulling the platter evenly, from each side. The platter is clearly held in a much tighter ’grip’ than on the VPI (a critic might say; even so, with 6 strings, you get all the troubles of these rubber type strings, they vibrate, etc - and although averaged and evened out, it is not quite = full precision). Further, the magnetic bearing works much better than the springs on the VPI, even after placing the HW-19 on a Bright Star platform, and other tweaks I tried. That actually did help the HW-19 sound, but only after a lot of base / feet / platform tweaking. Which I got "free" so to speak with the Hanss. I placed the T30 directly on my solid stone rack top shelf, and have never felt the need for more tweaks, sand box, etc - no thanks.

I don’t blame my SME V for my troubles with the VPI player, it sounded ok on this spring-loaded turntable also, but it clearly likes the more stable Hanss platform better. There is no skipping or mistracking, except when the LP has a major problem.

I am interested in good ways to go, based on the system we have, for a low cost. In my case, maybe I should check the SME damping. A little more oil might do the trick. I have some treble noise or sibilance, on some recordings at least. Also, the Hanss player might sound even better with a linear power supply.

miljostyn wrote:

If you are looking for the ultimate pitch stability you need to check out vacuum clamping.

I wonder, how would this help me, unless the LP slides or does not stay stuck to the platter? I use a center clamp and see no friction. Maybe you mean that a vacuum clamp can make the LP flatter, reducing pitch variations due to imperfect pressings?

Re SME V with Kimber KCAG as phono cable

I have used this cable for a number of years without problems - not much hum. I compared to a Hovland phono cable, no big difference. I liked the airy sonic signature of the KCAG as interconnects, thats why I used an extra pair for phono cable. It was an audio friend of mine who did the actual soldering to the SME DIN plug but I don't think he used any special tricks. Even if my phono stage is mainly balanced, the first gain stage (of three) is single ended, so I use standard RCA inputs, not XLR. Running a separate ground to the arm makes zero difference, no more or less hum! The unshielded KCAG is certainly sensitive to some kinds of noise, e g digital bursts from an alarm system. But it does not pick up a lot of ordinary hum, in my system.  

I am trying the added mass modification suggested by @JCarr for SME V with a Lyra cart, with promising results; sound seems a bit fuller and deeper, with no obvious problems, mistracking etc. Total mass ca 35g (5 on the headshell, 30 on the counterweight). Maybe best with a little bit oil reservoir damping too. Atlas at 1.71g weight.

@neonknight 

Mass on counterweight: I used a small disc that was part of a footer (cone + disc) with a center cavity that fits on top of the c-weight screw head. A coin with a hole might work too. So with a little bluetac it is stable. 

Effective mass: not sure! Seems to be a quite complex calculation (google effective mass, here and on  vinylengine). Some argue that  the c-weight mass adds ca 10 percent of the total added effective mass (90 pct at the headshell).

It is a fairly easy to experiment with, with coins of different sizes and bluetac in between. If I understand @JCarr right, the effective mass should be 16-18g (including the 10-11g of the SME V itself). So far I am positive, yesterday I even wondered if my horn speakers now sound a little bit more electrostat-like.

@lewm - I am just following advice from @jcarr that experimenting with more mass may be useful, and that Lyra carts often sound progressively better up to 16-18 g. 10 pct at the c-w is obviously a rough approximate, very dependent on the pivot to c-w distance, etc. Have you tried this, on a SME V? In my case, tweaks come and go, sometimes they stay - so we'll see.