What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?


Douglas Self wrote a devastating article about audio anomalies back in 1988. With all the necessary knowledge and measuring tools, he did not detect any supposedly audible changes in the electrical signal. Self and his colleagues were sure that they had proved the absence of anomalies in audio, but over the past 30 years, audio anomalies have not disappeared anywhere, at the same time the authority of science in the field of audio has increasingly become questioned. It's hard to believe, but science still cannot clearly answer the question of what electricity is and what sound is! (see article by A.J.Essien).

For your information: to make sure that no potentially audible changes in the electrical signal occur when we apply any "audio magic" to our gear, no super equipment is needed. The smallest step-change in amplitude that can be detected by ear is about 0.3dB for a pure tone. In more realistic situations it is 0.5 to 1.0dB'". This is about a 10% change. (Harris J.D.). At medium volume, the voltage amplitude at the output of the amplifier is approximately 10 volts, which means that the smallest audible difference in sound will be noticeable when the output voltage changes to 1 volt. Such an error is impossible not to notice even using a conventional voltmeter, but Self and his colleagues performed much more accurate measurements, including ones made directly on the music signal using Baxandall subtraction technique - they found no error even at this highest level.

As a result, we are faced with an apparently unsolvable problem: those of us who do not hear the sound of wires, relying on the authority of scientists, claim that audio anomalies are BS. However, people who confidently perceive this component of sound are forced to make another, the only possible conclusion in this situation: the electrical and acoustic signals contain some additional signal(s) that are still unknown to science, and which we perceive with a certain sixth sense.

If there are no electrical changes in the signal, then there are no acoustic changes, respectively, hearing does not participate in the perception of anomalies. What other options can there be?

Regards.
anton_stepichev

Showing 12 responses by rodman99999

@manueljenkins-  

      We can hope the OP won't mind a bit of further communication.

      Given your obvious interest in computing: did you know they're working on a system, by which spinning electrons could, rather than the typical bit, which only contains a possible 0/1 (binary); by stopping it's spin at various locations, enable that quanta bit (or qubit) to exist in more than one state, simultaneously, until detected?

       https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9768-electron-spin-trick-boosts-quantum-computing/

        and: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200302113310.htm 

        FUNNY, that a dispute regarding one of my favorite Physicists, Feynman, would have also postulated precisely that proposition, in 1982:

        https://refubium.fu-berlin.de/bitstream/handle/fub188/1646/04_DissCarolaMeyerChapter1.pdf?sequence=5...

         One of his Rules of Life, mentioned often in his lectures, was, "Never Stop Learning".     That always resonated within me.

         https://harrywhite.org/2020/06/29/richard-feynmans-rules-of-life/

          I've made an attempt, best as possible, to abide by 3 and 4, as well.

          Sadly: I've encountered more MENTAL OHMS on the 'GoN (the levels of which have proven enormous, at times), than anywhere else, in my experience.     Hence: potential, pronounced provocations are often presented, to number 6, on these pages.

           For quite a while there: the only/best place for keeping current with developments in Physics and Quantum Mechanics, was the Library, perusing the newest editions of Encyclopedia Britannica and the science journals, published every month.   ie: the now gone and sorely missed*, 'Science Digest'.       *Well: by me, anyway.

            Now, of course, we've got the Net's profusion of sites and yet even more monthly magazines, through which to keep up, ie: the two above-cited links and:

             https://www.sciencenews.org/article/physics-ligo-mirrors-lasers-quantum-mechanics-limit

                                             Enjoy the journey/never stop learning!




@manueljenkins-  

     Refer to the third post of this thread, which I typed before learning the secret to paragraphs:  

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ok-but-does-your-audio-gear-have-rotons-metamaterials

      Perusing some of the following posts, probably wouldn't hurt either.

     Hopefully: a few facts will help with your bewilderment.

     ie: Feynman and Bohr both worked on The Manhattan Project and Feynman was still lecturing on his (subsequent) QED theories, in the mid 60's, some of which I enjoyed.

     https://www.google.com/search?q=manhattan+project+scientists&oq=man&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57...

                                            Higher Education is your friend!
@djones (et al)-

         ps:  Would you scoff, were I to tell you that certain birds actually navigate their migratory routes from Scandinavia to Africa and back, every year, via receptors in their eyes, that detect the Earth's (very weak) magnetic field?

        How about: your nose doesn't, "smell" anything, but: actually LISTENS to frequencies generated by molecular bonds?

         ie: the frequencies generated by the chemical bonds of Almonds and Cyanide are identical and that's why they smell the same, though their molecules/chemistry are vastly different.

         btw: Both of those scientific/biological facts were established though the studies of Quantum Mechanics.

                                    https://phys.org/news/2011-01-quantum-robins.html

                                    https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.5084270                                       


                                                    Higher Education is your friend!
@djones-

     "If these new models don't agree with your preconceptions and biases you'll dismiss them as well."

     Do you mean: the way the scientifically uninformed, "dismiss" and scoff at such established truths as Quantum Entanglement; as they incessantly have, though the facts have been in for the past five decades?

      If the world's best inventors, throughout human history, hadn't ignored, "scientists", naysayers and scoffers (such as you): we'd still be living in a relative Stone Age, with respect to technology.

       ie: When the steam locomotive was invented: the day's best, "scientists" claimed man couldn't survive speeds in excess of 20 MPH!

        Interesting, that most of the electrical theories your ilk espouses, came from the same century (the 1800's).
Again: no one can possibly know whether ANY given changes will make a difference, in their system and room, with their media and to their ears, without trying them for themselves.        Anyone that knows anything about the sciences (Physics, in particular), realizes that something like 96% of what makes up/controls this universe, remains a mystery.      Since the dawn of humanity; we've seen, heard, felt and otherwise witnessed phenomena, that none of the best minds could explain, UNTIL they developed a science or measurement, that could explain it.     The Naysayer Church wants you to trust their antiquated science (1800’s electrical theory) and faith-based, religious doctrine, BLINDLY ("Trust ME!" = their credo).    Theories have never proven or disproven anything.     It’s testing and experimentation that proves or disproves theories.     IF you’re interested in improving your system’s presentation, have a shred of confidence in your capacity for perceiving reality and the audacity to trust your own senses: TRY whatever piques your interest/curiosity, FOR YOURSELF.           The faith-based, Naysayer Church HATES it when THAT happens!
@dulledge:    You CLAIM that you don't read what I post, because you can't fault anything I post.        Nothing but excuses!           You're nothing more than the typical uneducated/pseudo-intellectual, obtuse, Naysayer Doctrine adherent.
Again:    The Naysayer Doctrine (a faith-based religion) clearly has it’s roots deeply embedded in measurements and an antiquated view of electricity.      I’d be interested in hearing what (if any) measurements have been taken and/or what experiments have been conducted, by the Naysayer Evangelists, or their Popes, that aren’t based on an Engineering/Physics understanding of electricity/electromagnetism from the 19th Century (ie: Ohm, Maxwell, Faraday, etc).      The same cult was taking shots at Nikola Tesla, back in his day!  https://nextexx.com/2020/06/18/why-do-scientists-hate-tesla/        He still managed to take the world, kicking and screaming into the 20th Century, with his inventions.     A good read: https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Invented-Twentieth-Century/dp/148122980X 
@djones-     " Roddy9999999 just copies and paste the same idiotic post over and over."       FACTS have no expiration date.         I'll post those same statements, until one of your Naysayer Church congregants can prove them wrong, instead of trying to bury them beneath your piles of misguided blather (or pathetic jokes).       Unlike your ilk: my only agenda is to encourage others to experiment with their systems.      That USED to be the focus of this forum.
@dulledge:    "May I suggest paragraphs, proper sentence structure, leaving useless capitals out and toning down the emotions. Not sure about anyone else, but I don't make it past a sentence or two."        There is no, "emotion" to tone down.     Caps merely emphasize points and I wouldn't waste any emotion on a poser.     Nor: is there anything wrong with my Grammar.       My posts contain only facts and observations.        None of which you can refute.      Hence: your continual twisting in the wind.
@dulledge:    The last time I posted the 96% figure, as regards what scientists recognize as an UNKNOWN, in our universe: you replied:  "Anyone that knows anything about science knows that you could never assign a number like 96% to what remains a mystery as that would imply knowing exactly what we don't know. People not very good at science are pretty terrible at anti science rants disguised as pro science rants. It was good theater though."        That made your total ignorance of the sciences and what Physicists, around the globe have recognized for decades, blatantly obvious.      ie (again):      https://science.time.com/2013/02/20/telescope-to-hunt-for-missing-96-of-the-universe/    and:  https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy                  Your ignorance of basic science wouldn't be quite so tragic, but for your pathetic posturings on AudiogoN's pages.      My minor was Psych and though we didn't have Dunning-Kruger as a reference (in the Sixties); we often spoke of, "pseudo-intellects", as sad and to be dismissed.        This time: you ignore the point of the post (Science is always limited to our instrumentation's abilities, knowing how/what to measure and the latest theory) and deflect to the Physics of what's happening on our planet.    I've mentioned before, in these pages: those whose understanding of electricity is limited to the measurements and theories, conceived by the Nineteenth Century's (1800's) scientists, can't fathom how our highly complex/terribly fragile musical signals can be affected by our cabling/wiring/wave guides.      Those of us that took advantage of available higher education, were taught by our Physics professors and lecturers, back in the Sixties (as opposed to those of Case's EE Dept), a number of electrical theories and experiments/proof (ie: Wave-Particle Duality, QED, the polarization of dielectrics, etc), developed/performed in the Twentieth Century, that open the door to a plethora of possibilities, as to why many of us observe (hear) differences in improved wave guides, or anything else we alter in our systems (NOT as though that was ever our Prof's intended application/goal).     Even back then: we were taught that electrons DO NOT MOVE through a conductor, but rather oscillate over minute distances (within the atom), with an AC signal.      The signal itself moves as a wave and ALWAYS toward the load.      The Naysayer Church is too buried in it's own antiquated doctrines, to even allow for the possibilities that MODERN Physics proffers.
@dulledge-    "Anyone that knows anything about science knows that you could never assign a number like 96% to what remains a mystery as that would imply knowing exactly what we don't know."                                                                                                          It would behoove you to keep up with science, if you intend to comment on the subject.          https://science.time.com/2013/02/20/telescope-to-hunt-for-missing-96-of-the-universe/                    Even Einstein realized there must be a huge amount of unseen/unknown matter and energy, when accounting for the gravity in our universe.     His theories were published in the very early 20th Century.     https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy
Again: no one can possibly know whether ANY given changes will make a difference, in their system and room, with their media and to their ears, without trying them for themselves.        Anyone that knows anything about the sciences (Physics, in particular), realizes that something like 96% of what makes up/controls this universe, remains a mystery.      Since the dawn of humanity; we've seen, heard, felt and otherwise witnessed phenomena, that none of the best minds could explain, UNTIL they developed a science or measurement, that could explain it.     The Naysayer Church wants you to trust their antiquated science (1800’s electrical theory) and faith-based, religious doctrine, BLINDLY ("Trust ME!" = their credo).    Theories have never proven or disproven anything.     It’s testing and experimentation that proves or disproves theories.     IF you’re interested in improving your system’s presentation, have a shred of confidence in your capacity for perceiving reality and the audacity to trust your own senses: TRY whatever piques your interest/curiosity, FOR YOURSELF.           The faith-based, Naysayer Church HATES it when THAT happens!