What differences should I be hearing as my new system breaks in?


I recently upgraded and replaced my entire stereo system. I have been using the new components a few weeks now, maybe two or more hours per day. I’ve been reading here the components have various burn in times. My question is, what differences or improvements should you expect to hear as the system breaks in over time. All the components were purchased brand new except the power conditioner. I understand different components take longer to burn in than others. From what I’ve read, on the low end, the cartridge should take maybe twenty or so hours to break in. On the high end the speakers might need up to three or four hundred hours.

My new system consists of a pair of Magico A3 speakers, a Luxman L-507uX MkII integrated amplifier, a VPI Classic 2 SE turntable with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge, and a Marantz SA 8005 CD player (which I have had for a few years). I also acquired a Shunyata Hydra Denali 6000/S power conditioner, used, which everything is plugged into. Wiring consists of Audioquest Rocket 88’s to the speakers, VPI’s house brand cable from the turntable to the amp, and an Audioquest Colorado cable fom the CD player to the amp. The Shunyata Hydra Denali uses a Shunyata Venom power cord to the wall outlet.

It’s been interesting so far. Thus far some records or CD’s sound very different form what I’ve been used to listening to over the years. I had my old Dahlquist DQ-10’s, Bang and Olufsen Beogram 4002 turntable and Phase Linear 400/4000 amp/preamp combination since the late seventies.

Some sparsely orchestrated Joni Mitchell sounded wonderful and beautifully articulated. Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers with Wayne Shorter, playing as I write, really shows off Mr. Shorter’s sax playing in full bodied way I’d not heard before. I really enjoyed Shostakovichs 5th symphony, where I’ve usually not been able to warm up to classical music. Stuff I’ve heard a million times before and was a little bored with has come alive for some reason. The Grateful Dead’s "Wake of the Storm" sounded inexplicably different and better for some reason. Bill Wyman’s bass intro into on the Stone’s "Live With Me" off Let It Bleed was a revelation. I’d never heard it before like that, although I’ve listened to Let It Bleed hundreds of times as the daily played soundtrack of my senior year in high school. Oddly, Let It Bleed sounded poor, particularly Mick’s vocals, at the speakers demo, to which I had taken it. Go figure.

On the other hand Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon on Mobile Fidelity sounded like a muddy mess and super crackly to boot, although an almost brand new pressing. Next up is a record cleaning machine to see if that makes any difference with well cared for records like the Pink Floyd recording. Paul Desmond’s alto sax practically jumped out of the speakers on the Brubeck’s Take Five album, which had previously left me non-plussed, but now was quite enjoyable. I’ll have to try a little more West Coast jazz. I’ll stop rambling right now.

Anyway, I’m curious how much better things may get and what may change, as the system gets burned in properly. I’d appreciate any input about what to expect from those of you who have some experience in this area. There’s been mostly nice surprises so far. Thanks,

Mike
skyscraper

Showing 4 responses by millercarbon

Skyscraper:
 Thus far some records or CD’s sound very different form what I’ve been used to listening to over the years. ...

 Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon on Mobile Fidelity sounded like a muddy mess and super crackly to boot, although an almost brand new pressing. ...

Paul Desmond’s alto sax practically jumped out of the speakers on the Brubeck’s Take Five album, which had previously left me non-plussed, but now was quite enjoyable. ...


Okay so here's the thing, or my view on it anyway: what you are shooting for is not a system that sounds any way in particular, but a system that sounds like nothing at all. The perfect system has no sound of its own. It disappears. If perfect it would literally disappear. But we will settle for when you turn the lights off and the music on then all you have is the music.

When that is the case then yes sorry to say but you will sometimes find yourself playing recordings that used to sound great and ought to sound great but instead sound like crap. There's a lot that goes into this and its not an easy thing to understand so let me try and explain.

DSOTM, I have four or five copies (just of the LP). One original issue from about 1972, two MoFi reissues, one remastered reissue. I pulled the virtually brand new and supposedly audiophile reissue out recently. Even though I hadn't played DSOTM in years it was immediately obvious this version was crap. Absolute crap. Congealed, smothered, obnoxiously hard edged flat yet grainy crap. Could only stand a few minutes. Pulled out the others to compare. The original was much more open, detailed and dynamic. The MoFi (both of them) were close to the original, with just a hair of presence smoothed off, enough that a lot would probably prefer it as more quiet if they never heard them side by side.

In this case it would seem the crap reissue was ruined in mastering, while MoFi probably just did better mastering and took more care in the pressing, yet even with all of that still didn't quite match the original. 

Listen to all of these however and then put on the Brubeck. Which is a whole different story. Both have some pretty fine sax, but the Brubeck is far more viscerally present and there in the room. In fact the difference is much more than that. Its more like when playing that recording the whole room is different. Your room is the same. But the room you hear is different. As your system gets better you will better appreciate what I'm talking about. But listen, you should be able to get some sense of it even now.

This is the goal and the better your system gets the bigger the difference you will hear between recordings, and even between different pressings of the same recording. 

A friend listening to Terry Evans Putting it Down one time said he thought one track sounded better than another. We looked and sure enough, that one track had been recorded live to two-track. The others were mixdowns. So even that small a difference can be heard- when your system is good enough to reveal that small a difference.

The usual metaphor is one of looking through a lot of panes of glass. The amp is one pane of glass, speakers another, and it turns out there's a lot of em, everything from the power cords right down to the individual diodes and caps is a pane of glass. Some panes are thick, some thin, some clear, some colored, some flat, some curved and distorted, some cracked, chipped, smoked, etched, clean, dirty, on and on.

The goal with upgrades is pull out the etched glass replace it with clear. Only thing, turns out there is no clear glass. Even if it is, guess what? Its still glass! What you want is no glass, not even air- no such thing.

Right now you got a much cleaner window than you had before. Looking out, some scenes look dramatically better. Others, like your DSOTM, you can't understand why they look worse. Because they were ugly to begin with. You just didn't know it, looking at it through your beer goggles, as it were. Now though when you do find a really good pressing- magic. Gonna sound better than you ever imagined.

That's the way it is. Sometimes your system getting better will make some recordings sound worse. Oh well. Other recordings though.... buried treasure. 
Right. What I thought. Everything so messed up you couldn't hear even if you knew what to listen for. But the good news, you are listening! I'm harsh but fair. For what you have noticed, good. Keep listening.

Okay so now here's the thing. The inches you find so amazing, in terms of where you want to be, might as well be miles. Inches are fine in terms of adjusting what you're hearing so far, gross frequency response. Reason I say gross, its gross. So gross you can hear it easily with any stereo. You can hear it with your laptop. Play anything with the laptop sitting on a table. Now lift it up. Hear the difference? That's bass reinforcement from the wide flat table top. Same exact thing happening with your speakers relative to the floor and walls.

The changes that happen with burn-in are much less obvious yet still easily heard. It helps a lot to know what to listen for. And to have speakers accurately placed not just plopped down like they are now.

Because where you want to be is measured in millimeters, and I mean only one or two, or fractions of an inch, and I mean like 1/8.

Get a tape measure and square. Tweak the speakers to be the same distance from your sweet spot and angled in so they are exactly symmetrical. You find inches amazing, wait till you hear the difference a few degrees of toe in has on imaging when your speakers are precisely aligned like this!

Now what to listen for in terms of burn-in. Warm-up. Whatever. Same thing. Different only in terms of time frame. Let me explain.

Take anything cold, new or used, wire or component, does not matter. Start using it cold, when it hasn't been used in a while, it will not sound anywhere near as good at first as it will later on. The difference between brand new and used but not recently is the same in terms of character but different mainly in terms of how big the difference and how long the time to get to stable and good. A system or component used all the time but not since last night will probably be back to great in an hour or so. A system or component brand new will probably be more like a couple hundred hours or so.

Got it? This is not one and done. This is always and ongoing. 

Now sorry for blowing you off earlier but you know there's a lot of goofballs and trolls around here, the place is full of them, and you could easily have been just one more. Only saying you have been moving things around and listening changed my mind. So here's what to listen for and how to learn to hear it.

The hard part about this is you're trying to hear something that develops very gradually over a long period of time. The one time it happens fast is right at the very beginning. When you know what you're doing you'll be able to hear changes happening in real time as the minutes go by. Later on its more like you will notice one day it sounds a whole lot better than it did last week. This happened to me just last night. "New" as in recently modded Active Shielding MPC. Only thing new in them is the diodes and caps ala Michael Spallone. Everything in my system thoroughly burned in. Only 9 diodes and two caps were new. Monster changes as those few parts burned in!

The sound initially, and yes I'm still talking about this but its the same for everything, it has the overall character but its like a sketch or drawing yet to be painted. The sound has a grain to it. Leading edges exaggerated, harmonic development sketchy. Instruments are localized as in there is width and depth, but this also is kind of sketchy as if not quite really there. There is an impression of detail, but then you realize this is mostly because of the exaggerated leading transients. In fact there's a tremendous amount of detail being hidden or glossed over.

(Learn to recognize this, its the main thing responsible for "hi-fi" sound and its killing a lot of audiophiles. They just don't know it.)

Then over time the sketchy sound gets filled and colored in until eventually if you got a good one its Technicolor and if you got a really good one 70mm. Last night after one week the sound was so divorced from the speakers and room I could hardly believe it. Fundamentals and harmonic development so fully realized it was easy to hear the skin on the drum, and so free of grain and glare it was like real, palpable presence, on and on.

Hearing this as it happens over such a long period of time is hard at first. Here's a trick that worked for me. Leave everything on all the time. Just leave it on. Everything. No matter what. Do this for at least a week. Probably you will notice nothing. Perfectly normal. Changes happen slow and you're not yet a very experienced listener. Just do it.

Then after at least a full week of this plan some time when you can do the following. Have a really good late night listening session. Play your favorite best recording last. Turn everything off and go to bed.

Next day turn everything on and immediately play that same recording. 

Yeah. And keep in mind that was just overnight. What your system sounded like brand new was much worse. The degree to which you hear a difference doing this is the degree to which you have developed as a skilled listener. Which if you are, it will sound like crap. So crappy you will never ever want to do that again!

Let me know.
@millercarbon That crossed my mind and then you said it. #funny
The vast majority and by far the most obvious changes are in the beginning. By the time you been doing it a while, to ask what "to expect", well no wonder this thread disintegrated into glupkaitsonbabble in no time flat.
I’m only curious what it entails sonically and the scope of the changes to expect. 


Well now here's the problem. Your question, what to expect, only makes sense when asked first. When asked after two weeks of listening, well its like asking what to expect from sex after having sex two hours a night for two weeks. 

If you don't know by now....