good one, Boa2, but i prefer hot sauce, and not that weak Lousisiana stuff, uh-uh, Im talkin some of that Korean make-you-see-God hot sauce on my crow. |
the other variable not mentioned in the above post is tube set. The FS really comes to live, very harmoinically rich, not at all lean with the Amperex 6922 PQ tubes; even richer and lusher with old 6DJ8's (e.e.g bugle boys from 1959-60). Others have had great results with the Siemens 7308's.
anyway, I insist the FS tubed preamp rackon listened to is not anywhere near the preamp in my LR. OTOH, I've not heard the Herron so I would not be able to compare. |
Hi Kalan. Thanks for the unit. David Berning really recomends the CAT with his amp, so I'm thinkign there will no mismatch issues, fortunately. I wont be able to compare it to my FS, which has not been away for over a month, AND my system is seriously different: new source, new speakers, upgrade to the amp - it's pretty muuch new. |
I love my Presence Deluxe Mk II, but now im thinking about upgrading probably to the 4.0 with paramount plus upgrade, or maybe the full-monte Paramount II.
Man oh man, it's gonna cost me a pretty penny, but it's only money, right? |
rackon - well, stated. i understand your points clearly, especially about "system context." tell us what amp, source and speakeres you had around your FS. |
it's obvious that if you ask people who already use the FS whether it's a big deal or not to lack a remote, or to have separate volume controls, they will say, "no big deal."
I am one of those - BUT, I did not think I was going to be able to deal with it. In other words, when I went looking for "no-holds barred" preamps, I initially ONLY wanted one with a remote, but then I could not help but notice that many of the very best tubed preamps did not have remotes (Lamm L2, First Sound, Aethetix Calisto, VAC, CAT, Audio Note, and so on) - So rather than automatically exclude some of hte very very best in my consideration - I broadened my criteria, deciding I would live with this "inconvenience."
Well, let me tell you, if your someone thinking about a preamp but are wavering because it's got no remote - DONT SWEAT IT. True life might be easier with a remote, true that recordings all vary, and true you'll have to get up off your arse more, but it's managable..... |
Dan - I have not heard it, but hae heard the calisto (which i do not believe comes with a remote) is remarkable. The little brother Calypso (which does have a remote) does offer a remote, and is also pretty damn good.
Rwwear - I understand your points - but are you saying that Lamm, Audio Note (M6-10), and the Aethetix Calisto now offer remotes? That's news to me.
Anyway, tell us again what preamp you have, I/we really am curious. Obviously it must be one with a remte, or at least a single volume control - awaiting your reply. |
i mean thanks for the info... my typing is rather poor. |
in case it aint obvious, this thread started out with someone asking if the first sound preamp was any good. Interestingly, the discussion has really expanded to discuss the virtues/vices of remotes - the issue of dual volume controls (in general terms), and has offered insighful comparisons of First sound vs Herron (and perhaps a few others).
This is an excellent invaluable forum of opinions. So far, we've even been civilized, which is refreshing.... To rwwear - best of luck finding a suitable preamp. Obviously, with no remote and dual volume control, there will be no First Sound in your future. best of luck finding your nirvana. |
Guido - tell us, what preamp do you own? |
that's a fine system, Guido - I only asked because you frequent the First Sound discussions, and seem pretty familiar with its virtues. Maybe you should pick one up!!
Art |
maybe there's shunt physiology. |
Direct from Emmanuel:
First Sound U.S. Price List
2005 Model Year
Presence MKII $3900.00
Dual Mono Construction using Copper Plated Steel Chassis
Step Attenuators, Series Type using Holco Resistors
Custom Machined 3/8 inch Black Anodized Aluminum Faceplate
SPS 2.0 External Power Supply
2 chassis unit
Presence Deluxe MKII $4,200.00
Dual Mono Construction using Copper Plated Steel Chassis
Step Attenuators, Ladder Type using Holco Resistors, designated as LTH 92
Custom Machined 3/8 inch Black Anodized Aluminum Faceplate
SPS 2.0 External Power Supply
2 chassis unit
Presence Deluxe 4.0 MKII $6,900.00
As the Presence Deluxe with the addition of:
•DPS 4.0 External Power Supply using 2 SPS 2.0 External Power Supplies
3 chassis unit
Presence Deluxe 4.0 MKII with Paramount upgrade $8,100.00
As the Presence Deluxe MKII with the addition of:
•DPS 4.0 External Power Supply using 2 SPS 2.0 External Power Supplies
•Paramount upgrade
3 chassis unit
Presence Deluxe 4.0 MKII with Paramount Plus upgrade $9,600.00
As the Presence Deluxe MKII with the addition of:
•DPS 4.0 External Power Supply using 2 SPS 2.0 External Power Supplies
•Paramount Plus upgrade
3 chassis unit
Paramount MKII $11,700.00
As the Presence Deluxe MKII with the addition of:
•DPS 4.0 External Power Supply using 2 SPS 2.0 External Power Supplies
•Paramount upgrade
•LTV 92 Step Attenuators, Ladder Type attenuators using Vishay Resistors,
3 chassis unit
Paramount Plus MKII $13,200.00
As the Presence Deluxe MKII with the addition of:
•DPS 4.0 External Power Supply using 2 SPS 2.0 External Power Supplies
•Paramount Plus upgrade
•LTV 92 Step Attenuators, Ladder Type attenuators using Vishay Resistors,
3 chassis unit
Paramount MKII Special Edition $16, 800.00
As the Presence Deluxe MKII with the addition of:
•DPS 4.0 External Power Supply using 2 SPS 2.0 External Power Supplies
•Paramount upgrade
•LTV 92 Step Attenuators, Ladder Type attenuators using Vishay Resistors
•Special Edition upgrade
3 chassis unit
Presence Deluxe MKII Statement with Paramount upgrade $9,900.00
As above with the addition of:
•Paramount upgrade
4 chassis unit
Presence Deluxe MKII Statement with Paramount Plus upgrade $11,400.00
As the Presence Deluxe MKII Statement with the addition of:
Paramount Plus upgrade
4 chassis unit
Paramount MKII Statement $23,400.00
Two Paramount MKII units used separately for left and right channels
6 chassis unit
Paramount Plus MKII Statement $26,400.00
Two Paramount Plus MKII units used separately for left and right channels
6 chassis unit
Paramount MKII Special Edition Statement $33,600.00
Two Paramount MKII Special Edition units used separately for left and right channels
6 chassis unit
Options
LTH 92 Ladder Type Attenuator with Holco Resistors $800.00
A pair of ladder attenuators utilizing a total of 92 Holco Resistors.
DPS 4.0 External Power Supply $2,850.00
Uses two SPS2.0 External Power Supplies
Detachable umbilical cords
Completely separate grounding system for left and right channels
LTV 92 Ladder Type Attenuator with Vishay Resistors $3,600.00
A pair of ladder attenuators utilizing a total of 92 Vishay S102K Resistors.
Paramount Upgrade $1,500.00
MIT PPFX Capacitors
Expanded power supply capacitors
Paramount grounding topology
Paramount Plus Upgrade $3,000.00
Cardas Golden Ratio Capacitors
Expanded power supply capacitors
Paramount grounding topology
Special Edition Upgrade $5,400.00
Custom made Copper Capacitors
Detachable umbilical cord Option $600.00
For owners of the SPS 2.0 external power supply who want detachable umbilical cords
Gold Knobs $150.00 each knob
18 K gold plating on the knob. A three step plating process is used to achieve a beautiful gold finish on the
knobs.
NOTE:
All gold finishes are optional
All Contents Subject to Change Without Notice
First Sound, Inc.
833 SW Sunset Blvd. Ste. L57
Renton, WA 98055
425.271.7486 voice
425.277.8653 Fax
lobsang@ix.netcom.com
www.firstsoundaudio.com |
I think you'd have to get into a Callisto (the bgger brother of the Calypso) to meet/better the FS... |
TVAD - I ended up not getting that 4-box unit, mostly because the seller found out it did not have the upgrades (Vishay stepped attenuator, paramount upgrade) he though it had, so he's gonna keep it and upgrade it for himself.
As for those other thoughful impressions of the FS, I would add that MY Presence Deluxe MK II (fed with electraglide, cabled with Stereovox, amplified by berning, into Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage's, with 1960's Pinched waist Amperex 6922's) is as smooth as silk, no glare or hardness I can perceive - none at all, and the emotional content of music is "there" in spades..... |
i think he means he wants grains (like salt) rolling off the knob onto his carpet when he turns the volume knob.... |
well, well, well, here's a gem for the taking....
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1118799988 |
It must come as no surprise, but my system is in flux again.
I sold the First Sound, and may end up with the FS Paramount - but not 100% certain. I am using this oppty to revisit tubed linestages. Part of the deal is my new source, and the wiring upgrade on my Berning amp have exposed the limitations of the Presence Deluxe MK II. I need more transparency, a quieter background, and even more dynamic impact. As such, i'm about to go into serious debt, since we all know that you need to spend stupid $$ to significantly better the FS PDII.
Anyway, to help fund said upgrade, i've been selling someother stuff. power conditioner, power cords, and Im thinking about selling the 1960 Amperex "Pinched Waist" 6922's that I spent a small fortune to acquire (ok, I'll come out and say it - embarassingly, I spent $500 for the new set, which might have 100 hrs total on them).
If any of you are interested in this ULTIMATE tube for the FS, email me an offer. If not, i doubt I'll post a classified since tube selling is such a hassle. I would just keep them around in case I ever need another reference 6922..... |
Analogbass - which incarnation of the CAT were you comparing to which FS preamp? |
well i didnt say the background was not quiet (or that it was "noisy" - it aint), or that there were no dynamics, but if you ask emmanuel himself what the upgraded versions of his preamps deliver - he will tell you quieter performance, better inner detail and delicacy and better dynamics. Since that's from the designer's own words- then it's obvious that the Presence Deluxe at 4200 is the FINAL word in preamp design, right?
Like i said I may end up with a Paramount, i just havent' decided. Yeah, i do have the disease bad. |
and yes, i spode with emmanuel about sending in my FS for upgrades, and he was totally supportive. After all, I am not turning my back on his preamp by any means, but generally speaking, the FS was an extended audition for me. I love it, but want to push the envelope further, that's all. |
Of course you are correct. In my opinion, to my ears, in my system I dont think the source, cables or amplification is going to change for a long long time, unless I win the lottery, so i'll continue my binge buying/listening on the preamp side of things, and may very well end up back where I started, but that's part of the fun - the trip.
Bottom line, if you buy value, it's relatively painless to rotate gear in/out. It may not seem sane, but trying new things can both be a curse and a blessing. To me, its fun. |
well, anyone interested in the authentic 1960 pinched waist 6922's? |
Kalan - I agree 100%. My system sounds better with a high quality preamp. I would be happy to add a FS Paramount back into the chain, but only used (so far none seen).
The Presence Deluxe is gone. I'm also going to try a deHavilland Mercury 2 within the next few weeks, and maybe a CAT and/or Joule ELectra before making a final decision. |
Time for me to eat crow, confess my sins, and otherwise expose my idiotic tendencies: I MISS MY FS PREAMP. Not sure what the hell i was thinking selling it!
Maybe I'll get a used one, maybe a paramount, though they're really rare to see. |
hi paul. i certainly did see the ad. i have emailed him 3-4 times trying to get basic info (age, condition, seriel #, even a picture), but no replies. From a zero feedback member, it's enough to shy me away. I was drooling at it, though - no doubt |
Hi Rayhall. Excellent description. I may have heard osme of that agressiveness in my FS, but was never able to articulate it as well. I would also say i forgave it because it is such an involving preamp, and did all those other things sooooo very well. I no longer have mine, but miss it. Im looking hard at the CAT for my system, and would be very interested in what/how the two preamps differ in your system, aside from what you already mentioned aboutthe CAT not having any of that hardness.
Much appreciated - Art |
better yet, ray - sell me your preamp. you dont really need two, do ya? :} |
Oldpert, still havent decided, but i did finally decide to put the PW6922's up for sale, which signals it probably wont be a FS since the FS was amazing with that particular tube... |
Rayhall thanks again. I bought a CAT SL-1 Ultimate MK II today. I had been eying it for a long time, so it was time to finally pull the trigger. I'm partial to smooth, lush and midhall performance. Plus David Berning himself likes the CAT with the Berning. I am hoping this will be the last peice of gear I buy for a loooong time. Time to start enjoying the music. Anyway, thanks for the input!
BTW, what tubes are in the CAT? I have a set of nice 6922's from my FS days that i would love to put back into service. |
You just made my day. I has spent a small fortune on a pair of Amperex 'pinched waist' 6922's (US) from 1960, which were simply awesome in the FS. I did not sell them with the FS, so now they will have a home in my CAT! |
Guido - John is correct, i am in flux (once again). I am changing sources and preamps, and will eventually repost my system thread (all i did was make it private, it's not deleted), once it all shakes out. I do know that a Reimyo CDP777 is in play...with that in mind, I will want THE most transparent and neutral (still preferrably tubed) preamp i can find. |
OK, John. I wont receive the CAT for another 3+ weeks, but it would be fun to hear the relative contribution(s) of all these components in two different systems. My unit will only be a linestage - I dont spin vinyl and dont have any plans in the forseeable future. Plus. it could be added on in the future should that need arise. I would definitely like to hear the callisto in my system, so once the peices are in order, we can play.
On the FS cabling question, I had stereovox IC's, which a re actually silver, but very very smooth, and I thought mated well with the FS. I also had tried Nordost Valhalla, but much preferred the stereovox, which had all the openness and detail, but was richer, and had a more fleshed out tonality vs the valhalla. |
Analogbass, I am assuming you meant the FS has "strong dynamics and a stark, very clear sound that cuts through...", right? Im going nuts waiitng for my new SL-1 to arrive. I also had the Presence Deluixe whch was really wonderful (I miss it), but so much has changed in my system since i had the FS that there will no way for me to comapre the CAT and ther FS.
celebrat - WELL DONE. I was considering getting a paramount to replace my Presence Deluxe, but none materialzed on here - nobody wants to part with theirs. You did the right thing. It will only get better and better with further break in. Please take a moment when you get a chance and give us more details about how the upgrade improved the sound! |
