What are the weak points of Pass amps and pre-amps ?

ebm used to have Pass so it has to be great, no room for anything negative no matter how little.

Pass makes some very good products however all of the points Unsound makes are very valid Pass’s gear tends to be big, heavy and runs hot.

In our tests we have compared a set of the big Pass X 160 we think a $30k Monoblocks to a set of Chord Monoblocks and the Chords were better.overall amplifiers with a client driving a pair of Martin Logan CLX

Tejay just compared a $6,200 Coda .8 which is a 150 watt Class A amplifier to a pair of $14k set of Pass Labs mono amps and TJ liked the Coda as much as the twice the price XA 60.8. and thouught the Coda was similar to the Pass but less colored.

We had a client compare a Pass Int 250 to a T+A 2500R both are $12k integrated and the T+A was prefered over the Pass as the T+A was faster, cleaner, and had more punch yet was lighter and ran much cooler.

Lastly another poster here switched from a Pass Labs preamp and amplifier to a T+A HV 3100 integrated as well with the same results reported.

What does this tell you? Pass makes good stuff but they do seem to have lost their edge compared to some of these other companies.

So perhaps Jetter you may want to consider the Coda .8 which gives you 150 watts Class A vs the Pass Labs xa 25 which gives you 25 watts of Class A power before switching to Class A/B so you are getting 3 times the rated Class A power for only $1,200.00 more and you get a totally cool set of meters.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ T+A and Coda Dealers

I upgraded from a Bel Canto Ref500s to a Pass XA30.8 a few years ago. Although the Bel Canto was not bad, the Pass was a dramatic improvement. I tried a Devialet around the same time and it wasn't for me. As amazing as the Pass amp was, the downside for me was that it heated up the room so much that it became uncomfortably stuffy. This is likely much more of an issue because I have a small room (10'x12'). It might not be an issue for a larger room like a living room. I thought that I might have to return it because the stuffiness was too much, but instead I got the HVAC modified by getting a return vent installed in the room :) I liked the sound that much!

Knew it was just a matter of time before Troy showed up and told us why his products are superior to Pass.

Predictable and amateur. The OP specifically asked about Pass, not comparisons to others, said there may be better amps, but specifically asked about Pass, then a few posts later asked about weaknesses compared to strengths. He did not ask for someone to come in here and compare Pass to other brands, or sell them on something. But you just can’t resist.

That said...

For every dealer that has had someone go from Pass to Brand X... someone else has gone from Brand X to Pass labs, or from Brand X... to Brand Y, you know, system synergy and all.

OP, I could care less what you buy. What is interesting is how depending on the thread Troy will reference Pass. You know... the "new" Krell now sounds more pass labs like...

Pass hasn’t lost any edge. As Troy likes to do... just look for the reviews out there that compare the 250.5 to the 250.8... and the XP10 to the XP12, if you want to read reviews.

I like TeeJay, but if an amp sounds similar, yet is "less colored" - then it really doesn’t sound similar does it?

Personally I do like Coda, and Doug at Coda. But for me, a weakness of that amp is that MY PERSONAL OPINION IS - that amp looks terrible. (I liked their old look better).

Overall of all the "pro" reviews out there.... find me more than 10% that are bad about any product.

Lots of good amps, just depends on what you are looking for. Pass is one of many really good brands out there.

They do run a little heavy, and run warm. No question about that, per your original question.