I have the XP12 and 250.8.
Really like them, the weakness is that because like most of us I like to try new things... but these are the first combo that I've been afraid to sell off and try something else!
So, suppose tempering the fun of research and upgraditis could be a weakness.
I feel the XP12 is really neutral. I don't think the 250.8 is dead neutral, but it just sounds good with every speaker I've tried with it. |
So if I had to absolutely nitpick...
250.8 - runs warm, no question it warms my room up. Not horribly so, but it does.
May not be the absolute best at top end resolution and sparkle.
I've heard Class D amps that are a bit punchier in the bass, a shade tighter.
You can get a similar sounding amp with similar specs (BAT) for a bit less money though the specs may differ a bit.
Bias meter more for show, though it's nice to have an idea when it might be moving out of Class A operation. Plus it looks cool. |
As usual Troy, you hijacked a thread to push your wares.
I like meters also. Just think that new coda looks like tic tac toe board. I’m sure it sounds great. I’ve stated that elsewhere.
Hell I’ve talked to Doug, he’s a good guy. He thinks meters are useless, but knows the market likes them.
I answered the OPs original question. You hijacked a thread again.
Yes, T+A and Coda make nice products. I’ve owned Coda and demoed T+A.
I mentioned the heat and weight, as I was answering the question.
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Knew it was just a matter of time before Troy showed up and told us why his products are superior to Pass.
Predictable and amateur. The OP specifically asked about Pass, not comparisons to others, said there may be better amps, but specifically asked about Pass, then a few posts later asked about weaknesses compared to strengths. He did not ask for someone to come in here and compare Pass to other brands, or sell them on something. But you just can’t resist.
That said...
For every dealer that has had someone go from Pass to Brand X... someone else has gone from Brand X to Pass labs, or from Brand X... to Brand Y, you know, system synergy and all.
OP, I could care less what you buy. What is interesting is how depending on the thread Troy will reference Pass. You know... the "new" Krell now sounds more pass labs like...
Pass hasn’t lost any edge. As Troy likes to do... just look for the reviews out there that compare the 250.5 to the 250.8... and the XP10 to the XP12, if you want to read reviews.
I like TeeJay, but if an amp sounds similar, yet is "less colored" - then it really doesn’t sound similar does it?
Personally I do like Coda, and Doug at Coda. But for me, a weakness of that amp is that MY PERSONAL OPINION IS - that amp looks terrible. (I liked their old look better).
Overall of all the "pro" reviews out there.... find me more than 10% that are bad about any product.
Lots of good amps, just depends on what you are looking for. Pass is one of many really good brands out there.
They do run a little heavy, and run warm. No question about that, per your original question. |
Back to an earlier comment.
With Pass (250.8 in my case). When I say they might not be the ultimate in top end resolution, I will clarify by saying this. You don't lose any information, all the notes are there etc. But say something like cymbals won't be as forward in the mix with a Pass labs amp as other brands in my experience.
This may be a weakness or a strength depending on your speakers and what you like. I like a big full midrange and do not want cymbals too far forward in the mix, I listen a bit loud and always tend to have cymbals distract me.
Some people listen more at moderate levels and want every last bit of detail and sparkle. Pass would do that, but maybe something else might be more enjoyable for that listener. |
@bo1972
So here is the thing. Even when talking about the "realism" of instruments.
I would make the argument that anything amplified - ultimately doesn't have much "3d" sound. Electric Guitar/Bass in particular. Anytime you are at a concert which is amplified, regardless of genre it doesn't matter. It's being pushed through amps firing in one direction, fed to a PA system.
Now, a small venue, piano, acoustic instruments, horns, etc.. Unamplified music, a singer in a small venue etc. I can buy some 3d realism to that. But, the soundwaves are still subject to the space they are in. But take out the amp/PA system I do think there is some 3d realism to acoustic instuments.
An amp - really just sends along the signal recorded. Now do some amps add some bloom - sure, but it's just sending along the signal it receives. I will grant that very, very few amps truly are neutral.
But for 3d realism, I would argue that the source (recording and whatever is passing that along), along with the speakers and the room they are in that make the biggest difference in any 3d illusion given. Obviously, the pre-amp and amp CAN flavor that, but really what you are looking for is a tremendous source, a pre and amp that impart nothing, and killer speakers and a killer room.
Now, a killer recording can help you imagine where the individual players are in a given recording. We all find that cool.
So, not sure if this has much to do with Pass strengths or weaknesses. Just decided to start typing some thoughts on this... I'm on record liking my Pass Amp and do not think it's dead neutral. I do however really like it.
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@dgarretson
I was just making sure I could smell what the Rock...was... cookin!
I will say however, right now my wife and kids are not home, I am in my audio room with my 250.8, XP12, and my Ohm Walsh 5000’s and getting my dose of Metal and Classical all at once. Metallica S&M.
Feeling pretty emotional listening to Metallica and the SFSO rock One, just knowing Sandman comes next and closing with Battery.
Of course, that could be the emotion of pure Joy, 90+ db’s and no one to tell me to turn it down.
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@jetter
Yeah... I under estimated the volume again. Definitely hitting peaks over 100db+
Oh, on the subject of Pass Labs no question they underestimate power and the class A bias. Bias meter barely moving.
87db 6ohm nominal load on the 5000's. Don't HAVE to have big power, but man they respond. |
@bo1972
I've never heard of Tru-Fi, is this a company, something you sell/rep work for? Just never heard of it. |
Man... at least Troy is selling legitimate brands and equipment.
Bo, appears to be using the "show-up and throw-up" method of selling... garbage. |
@jetter
Gotcha, really looks like a whole lot of useless space and words to me. No idea what it has to do with Pass Labs... |
