Weak Link in chain as I upgrade from mid-fi?

@christianb5s4 Thanks! Yeah I know the Arcam is something I'll outgrow soon, which is fine with me..I just think they Sa20/30 are a big improvement on the A19 (within the 'entry-hi' or entry-mid space at least) and are the easiest to listen to until the 5-7k territory imo..., especially given its focus as amp rather than added electrical complexity and noise in their AVRs. I mean, I hear the vast difference between it and, say, Sonetto VIIIs with Hegel H590 and Musical Fidelity M8xi though haha. I ideally want to 'call it' further down the line at an endgame setup somewhere around what something like the H390/Nova 3s do, and with as few components as possible. its a fun journey but Ideally im also sensible and don't rush into getting USB clocks and upsamplers just for kicks...

I think ive just heard some truly great sounding stuff via integrated and take the philosophy that there is a truly synergistic integrated out there for any pair of loudspeakers for a long stretch...maybe biggest diff being better DACs/money once you're in the > ~5-10k territory for amp/pre/dac combined budget. My thought is if I want to go full separates id only better do it when im also ready to invest in legitimately expensive interconnects, which is the difference between like a 6k system and a $40k+ system...not approaching that yet haha. Let me know if I am way underestimating the value in going separates earlier though, I just think
Separates -> more terminations and I/o stages -> compensate for busier chain with cabling that minimizes those drawbacks. Aside from more components into wall, thus needing proper conditioning and I can't run dedicated pwr lines where I am. 

I am looking at pass though. Pass, Hegel, Musical Fidelity. And for dacs the T+ seems to be amazing but yeah its such a risk since there are no trials or stores to demo, and I don't buy it'd get me value over idk..something a bit more affordable like Venus/Pontus/Yggdrasil until I have Novas or something like that. Again, might be dead-ass wrong lol. Curious what your DAC upgrade process was though. Did you go straight from AVR to what you have now, or did you try a Yggy or Pontus/Venus or something along the way?

 

Thanks much everyone for the feedback. Definitely pairing amp upgrade with whatever speaker upgrade (which I HOPE would be Olympica Nova 3 but maybe next would be either sonetto V or ON 1), and DAC is something I wrote off as like...’sure, maybe...eventually’ before this thread.

I want to try Yggdrasil and various Denafrips (Venus 2/ Terminator 2...maybe Pontus 2?) but the lack of ability to hear either of those in a shop/nearby makes it scary to clunk that much down without ability to trial. The Denafrips T2, and T+ get SUCH love Id love to eventually have one but in service of being able to hear what’s at my local shops, any thoughts on these brands/models as ’other’ high end ones? I know the qutest is a crowdpleaser but also maybe not endgame for something like Olympica novas? I can test it at least with my sonettos. I’ve also heard Ayre anything is really great, and their amps work well with Sonus Faber...which is promising as a prospect to have good synergy down the line when I up my amp. Luxman ive heard from my shop (that sells them so...grain of salt?) has great dacs, and if I ended up with Luxman amp that could also be synergy.

Luxman Da-250
Chord Qutest
Ayre QX-8
Ayre Codex
Moon 280D

Not that I can hear Yggdrasil in a shop, but how is that one as a "great" dac. I don't need like...DCS Lina full stack for 30k...but is it 'somewhat close-ish' to idk..Dena Venus II? Obviously one is chip another is R2R but the Schiit I see now has some upgrade options to give it a different balance in sound.

As a (characteristically for me) long aside, Story time:
Coming from headphone world one of the first big you tubers I watched was Zeos...who was the person that turned me onto the Hivi 3.1 speaker kit. Man did I LABOR over making those look as luxury as possible. Automotive glossy finish with Porsche flake black paint, painstakingly bevelled corners, upgraded caps in the x-over, and I was ’blown away’...for a few days.

Something happened after about a week. Nothing new occurring so much as I knew I had to be honest with myself about a deep, dark truth... I could practically pinpoint frequencies moving from driver to driver...was so disappointing to admit to myself that no, these are not satisfactory. The crossovers were complete garbage, the synergy of drivers was bleh, the aesthetics of the speaker front was so blunt and utilitarian compared to my poorly matched finish I poured over.All this to say it was a money pit (relatively, for that kit haha) at the beginning of this loudspeaker journey...BUT in retrospect it Tought me SO much:

- 3 ways are complex and you’d better get one with an artfully done crossover.
- The speed of ribbons sound nice but quality soft dome tweeter solutions have all the detail I could ever want.
- Forward presentation can be exhausting (this obviously can exist with headphones but it feels like a different kind of thing in a way to me)
- Care about every point in the chain, ESPECIALLY terminations and connections in some cases.
- While it hurt to sink so much money into quality ’finishing’ materials for those speakers, forcing myself to really try to love them really taught me to love the craft and taste great companies put into theirs.

Excited to keep going and Thanks for the engagement and advice all!

Thanks for feedback

Yeah this is early on in a journey Im enjoying so far. I ideally want to maximize performance with the fewest components, even as far as where I ’finish’, but obviously will replace every part of this system more or less at some point.

Definitely enjoy focusing on myself as a music lover first, but its plain to hear what Id get going from sonetto I to O.N. 1 or electa amator III in terms of imaging capability and SS depth. Just the Olympica Nova standmount is a massive upgrade.

If, like I mentioned, I don’t really have a ’listening room’ or even a larger room...what is the best solution to getting some controlled but blended oomph in the lower octaves? I don’t want to overpower a room with floor standings (I’ve heard the Olympica Nova floors would do this likely)...
Would eventually getting nova i’s, then a sub be the best solution for a small space? alternatively the amator 2 way floor standing maybe is the best SF for a smaller space?

So far the low-end from the sonetto I is satisfactory for the known sacrifices im making but ideally I can get a good full range experience in a multiuse room that isn’t necessarily entirely laid out for speaker placement far from walls etc.

@twoleftears I liked the Hint but I felt for >2x more money than the Arcam it was mostly just more power, with some additional edge. I preferred the smoother sound of the arcam...knowing that id rather do a more measurable upgrade a couple steps down the line. For that im considering Denafrips Pontus II with Luxman 505uXII, maybe a one box solution if a get a deal on a mid-tier/larger Moon or Hegel. The Luxman I just found a tier above them all.

Personally I found the Arcam a very well done integrated in its price range and really for the purposes of my current speakers everything the SA-30 offers in terms of sound, sans some of the digital convenience features. I do like Hegels but I didn’t really prefer them until the H390 which would be a ’future’ upgrade anyway. The Luxman/DF-P combo was a really special one that rang to me as a ’proper’ step up, and better than the H390 personally after testing on various SF/paradigm/Totem at a local shop. Unfortunately have only heard Moon int’s at another shop that doesn’t sell SF, so on Dynaudio (generally like a lot as well, my second choice of brand behind SF)

EDIT to the above: I realize I may come off as stubborn about the Arcam. Maybe a tad but I sort of saw it as the best ’musical’ sounding all in one int until I spend in the range of 4k+...which I do expect to do, just wanted room to grow. The main thing is I found the parasound really beneficial for forward sounding speakers but I don’t always want to be leaning forward on the edge of my seat which I felt the Hint6 would be like. Hegels less so for sure, and the wonderfully black BG is a huge benefit for sure with them. Once I have floor standings I feel that lvl of readiness to manage low end bass is gonna come in handy

@jjss49 Thanks for that feedback! I wanted to be thorough but also I won't lie...even though I know how modest my setup is, im still a little proud of it the way I was when I got my HD650's and first headphone amp (some fiio or something haha) and wanted to share it with the community. Excited for what I hear and learn as my ear and tastes grow. 

Yeah I actually started loving Paradigm prestige 85fs as the first 'starter' speaker 'wow' moment in a store, and then the founder 100fs...but realized the more I listened the sonetto can have an organic quality that I connect with. I sort of built my system to lean into that and, for now at least, see my future as just refining that sound more and more with better pieces. What you say about starting with sub, THEN amp upgrade like Hegel makes a lot of sense to me. It just didn't seem worth getting 190+ unless they would play more of a role in the bass department. Looking at starting with a REL T/5x for now.

@czarivey Headphone stuff:

Senn 650’s
DCA A2 Noire
Focal Utopia (v1)
CA Andromeda 2020 (these get some unfair hate, imo!)
Grado GS-1000

Desk Amp: Schiit Jot 1 w/dac...hopefully will upgrade this to a smoother Burson sometime soon
Living Room Amp: Bottlehead Mainline1.1

@juanmanuelfangioii haha, thanks for that. Im not new to hifi forumers, just loudspeaker ones...so Im not naive enough to believe stuff like that post you quoted, but people gonna try 🙄

I will say I didn't 'give' a 'limit' in price...partially because im not looking for 'hey if u had a dream 2 way setup what would u put in it', and I think im getting enough useful feedback to know that came across to many. 

I could imagine dac mattering but no matter how much source matters I couldn't imagine having a $6k T2 makes any sense until ive upgraded speaker and amp, though am curious what's the entry point of other gear when a DAC like that makes sense.

For now Im likely going to get some small Rel T subs, then eventually separate int amp/dac pieces...then speakers.

Regarding my choice of Sonetto I if it gives understanding why I chose the speaker...The SII is almost 2x the cost and I found it was lower on the value/$ scale which is already tough for SF given import costs to NA. The S1 gets close to the S2 (at least closer imho, compared to idk...lumina I and 2 or dyn emit m10/m20s, other big/baby brother 2 ways Ive heard), and will be sort of my training speaker for paying attention to depth and imaging on a loudspeaker setup.

@lanx0003 thanks haha. Yeah I know the sonetto is not the maxima amator, or ON 1 etc...let alone their 'true' high end lines...but I view it as the lowest point of entry to have usable training ground for what SF can offer. Lumina imo sacrifices too much on imaging to use as a chain in SF upgrade path that teaches you what to listen for. 

As for the Arcam its actually a really nicely done thing. I didn't trust the added electronics for the SA30 (wireless/dirac etc are something I could use down the line but not for now), and I know id upgrade the amp relatively soon anyway. The dac is easily best bang for buck Ive heard for a digital int amp at 2k or below, and I got it new for like 1100...was an easy choice! Its generally an easy going amp, and some of the lower end Hegel construction concerns me (was considering h95 but something irked me about the way everything mounted to chassis). That said, I wish it had less plastic and more metal, and the standby light can be seen from space.