We Need To Talk About Ones And Zeroes

@mdalton

That thread you linked is very good indeed. It features some definitive viewpoints.

I don't need to read anything from anybody anymore. I know the truth.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.

I was trying to make my original post both polite and sensitive to various points of view, but it seems I mostly tripped over my own feet.

My goal, or wish if you will, would be that folks who haven’t yet had the opportunity to educate themselves on the fundamentals of digital audio do so, so as to know what is possible vs what isn’t, and what makes sense vs what doesn’t, instead of slapping long-held analog-related beliefs on digital where they don’t belong.

I think it is emblematic of the problem when a clearly intelligent and learned individual accepts and propagates, doubtlessly in good faith, falsehoods about digital within this community and more importantly for themselves, those beliefs may lead them to make unnecessary and / or wasteful purchases.

A lot of folks seem to confuse digital files (made of ones and zeroes) with digital signal (the analog waveform representations of said ones and zeroes on transmission lines) and undesirable (but analog) noise that might travel along over said transmission lines.

Looks like a number of folks agree that the digital audio file that "lands" in your streamer is an exact, bit-perfect copy of the file Qobuz sent you, and of the file coming out of your CD or SACD of the same, assuming resolutions match and they originate from the same master.

In other words: Despite the horrors it traversed through AWS facilities, your digital audio file has suffered absolutely zero degradation or ill effect whatsoever on its journey to your home, explaining why audiophiles largely consider streaming equal in sound quality to traditional digital sources such as the aforementioned CD/SACD, local audio files on a NAS, or DAT transports if you’re into that.

Now, how would Ethernet gear located in the last 10 or 20 feet (aka your home) of that file’s 3000-mile journey somehow manage to compromise it where AWS itself failed?

Why would a simple $18 Monoprice Ethernet switch affect a digital audio file unaffected by a trip through hundreds of super-noisy industrial-grade switches...?

What can reasonably be hoped to be achieved by swapping in a $700 "audiophile" switch, all power supplies being equal?

If that $700 switch sounds better to your ears, I respect that, and I would prefer all the stuff about confirmation bias, sunk-cost fallacy, misery-loves-company, etc. be left out of this thread. It would be really interesting, however, to understand how a device that does nothing but send network packets on their way can favorably impact sound quality.

@macg19 

I would be happy with that, personally.

@gano 

Data center equipment is selected for high throughput, low latency and other factors including manageability and cost. Low noise isn’t one of them, and reasonably so since noise has no effect on digital data transmission. As a result switching mode power supplies and cooling fans are the norm, so these are noisy environments.

respectfully, you can’t draw correct conclusions from incorrect facts.

That’s generally true, but I’m not sure what you mean in this context?

Audiophile switch sellers purchase off-the-shelf switches, ditch the noisy switching mode power supply (SMPS) that came with it, repackage the switch with a small linear power supply (LPS), and sell it at a huge markup.

The LPS will in fact yield a significant noise level reduction. In other words, the product they're selling actually performs pretty well.

The only issue then is that they're selling, say, $80 worth of goods for $500, with no other expense than maintaining a website chockfull of audiophile puffery.

In a way, we can look at these people as arbitragers, leveraging audiophiles' lack of interest in or familiarity with basic network equipment.

All the more the reason to be a well-informed community - it's good for our wallets! 😃

@kennyc 

I'm confused. You give jeffbij a +1, then you apparently trash his post.

Did you mean to give the +1 to another poster?

@jsalerno277 

Please forgive in advance my philosophical pontification

It is more than forgiven, it is appreciated!

While your response is factually incorrect as noted by others, it is thoughtful and articulate and a pleasure to read 🙏

sophisticated error detection, correction, and redundancy mechanisms built into the system. Here’s how they ensure high reliability despite the presence of noise

This, and files can further be checksummed or hashed to confirm that the received copy is identical in all aspects to the sent copy.

Meanwhile, those AI are getting pretty good :)

@kennyc 

I meant to add "Some" in front of "Audiophile switch sellers" and I never did, but you're right. Vendors like Silent Angel and those you mentioned appear to produce their own PCBs, thereby offering an original product, which is really the right / ethical way to go - especially at the $3-4,000 price point.

On a higher level, high-end switches still send network packets on their way just like Monoprice switches, and there are limits to how quiet their power supplies can be made.

Speaking of which, if you go to this page and scroll down you will find a pic of the Silent Angel Bonn NX's ($3,999) main PCB. Isn't that an onboard SMPS right there at #4?

I don’t know if any of this resonates with those following this thread

@livinon2wheels 

It certainly resonates with me. I believe the choices you’ve made show admirable self-awareness. More often than not it’s not so much what we do that matters as why we do it. Best wishes for a prompt return to normal after the tragedy you’ve experienced.

USB was developed almost 30 years ago to replace and consolidate the old serial, parallel and PS/2 ports for PC peripherals, and later became ubiquitous in small electronics chargers.

How this pedestrian interface became quasi-standard in high-end digital audio is puzzling.

USB evolved tremendously over the decades and USB4 is a powerhouse, however many of today’s high-end DACs and streamers are still stuck in the USB 2.0 era.