Warm, Smooth yet Transparent Amp
12-11-13: Denon53 Well I have always found tubes to be more musically satisfying. You may want to look for a tube preamp that has a HT Bypass or Passthrough feature. This makes it easier to hook up a two channel preamp to a AVR so that you can use your stereo speakers as your fronts in a 5.1 setup. |
I don't like harsh, shrill highs, but rather a fuller, sweet sounding, yet transparent. Is this possible without spending several thousands of dollars? No, it's not possible to go east and west at the same time, no matter how much money you spend....sorry. You can look for a sound which is fuller and sweeter sounding OR you can look for a sound which is more transparent, but you cannot have it all, no matter how many dollars you throw at it. The Conrad Johnson amps that you speak of would fall into the fuller, sweeter sounding camp, not the transparent camp. If I were looking in your price range, I'd take a long, hard look at these Forte Model 7 monoblocks. I don't think you will be disappointed. I have no relationship with the seller. Cheers, John |
Hi Charles, I also enjoy reading your contributions on these forums. I guess it all depends on how one uses the terminology. I know that many here misuse the word neutral, and feel that neutral and transparency are interchangeable words, this bothers me. I feel that neutral means natural, with there being no added warmth nor added treble emphasis. I understand that you don't equate transparency to thinner and lean sound, however, you must realize that the majority of folks on this forum do interpret transparency this way. When asked for reco's for transparent cables, Nordost will always come up. When asked for reco's for transparent electronics, ARC will always come up. You get the idea? Many manufacturers will try to pursue the word transparent by highlighting the treble region artificially, thereby bringing more apparent detail to the music. While we may have a different understanding for an audiophile term than the majority of users here, when I try to answer questions, I assume the term is being used in the most common way as understood by the majority. I'm not saying that you can't have your own definitions for these terms, and therefore feel that both yin and yang can be accomplished simultaneously. However, by using the most common conceptions of the words transparent, and warm and smooth, I still feel that these sonic qualities will lead you in opposite directions tonally. That said, I'd love to get my hands on some high quality SET amp(s) like your Coincident's. Cheers! |
Hello Charles, Yes, your description of transparency sounds very enticing indeed, I would call that natural transparency. The word transparent has taken a ugly turn for me on these boards, as most will equate it with that artificially created sound where the treble region is emphasized to provide the illusion of more detail. I find that sound lean, thin, anemic, and soul-less. There are many detail freaks in the high end these days, who are looking for the ultimate in resolution and transparency, no matter how artificial it is when compared to live, unamplified music. I'd love to visit more local jazz clubs, but unfortunately, my wife is not a fan of that genre of music. So we compromise, no jazz for me, no country for her, and we just attend live Symphony Orchestral performances (we both enjoy classical music). :) |
Warm, Smooth yet Transparent Amp 12-09-13: Denon53 Bruce, I hate to say it, but I don't think you will find music to be "happening", or to "pull you in" as you say in your original post, as long as you are using the Arcam AVR300. You say you've tried different speakers with no luck, I don't think that trying different amps while still using an Audio/Video receiver as a preamp will help either. Over a decade ago I tried to marry my audio and video systems with many high end Surround Sound Processors (SSP) from the likes of Mark Levinson, Classe and Krell. I never found any of them to be musically satisfying. I finally gave up on that quest, and now use a dedicated two channel system for music that is very satisfying. |
12-11-13: Denon53 Well you didn't give me a price range, so I'll just assume the $1200 that you were trying to stick to for the amp. I believe any BAT preamp has the flexibility to make any input into a Throughput. Cary has the SLP-03 and SLP-2002 which both have a Cinema Bypass. Conrad Johnson ET-3 and Audio Research SP16L also has a Theater loop. That's just from looking through the tube preamps for sale currently. Go ahead, don't be shy, take a look for yourself. The Cary, CJ and BAT will give you more of the warm, smooth sound, and the ARC will be more transparent and revealing. Happy hunting. |
Well I didn't mention the CJ Classic in my last post when I mentioned the CJ ET-3, amongst others, because the Classic does not have a HT bypass. However, as I said earlier, you could always use a tape output to use as a HT bypass as well. The CJ should provide you with the warm, smooth sound that you are seeking, IMHO. |
12-14-13: Denon53 Yes. 12-15-13: Denon53 No. The key to using the preamp as a HT Bypass is so that when you are using your system in HT mode, you do not even have to turn your preamp on, and your preamp's volume control has no effect on the signal. If you use the extra set of preamp outputs on the CJ Classic, you will need to adjust the volume control to match the levels of the other channels. If you use the tape out, I think you will still have to turn the CJ Classic on, but the volume control will be out of the signal path, so you won't have to level match your channels when going to HT. If you find a preamp with HT Bypass, I believe that you will not even have to turn the preamp on to use the system in HT mode. This can save hours of use on your tubes that you are not using in HT mode. Depending on how much of your listening is done for HT versus stereo, this may or may not be a big factor. Does this make sense? |
Bruce, sorry for the confusion, but I don't think that using the tape outputs of the CJ into the tape inputs of the Arcam will work. After looking at the rear panel of your Arcam AVR300 in the manual, it looks like your Arcam has only one 7.1 analog input, which will then only work with one source (Oppo?). You would need to run the analog outputs (surround, center, and sub) directly into the DVD-A input RCA's. Then run the FR & FL output of the source into a source input in the CJ Classic. Then run the tape output jacks of the Classic into the DVD-A FR & FL RCA input jacks. Very complex, and it could work....for one 7.1 source. If you have more than one 7.1 source, or that source doesn't have analog (RCA) outputs, then you could have problems with this setup. You still definitely do not want to use the Pre out jacks of the CJ Classic though, as this would put two volume controls in the loop. I hope this doesn't make things more confusing. |
