Brianmgrarcom - I'm glad that you enjoy your Wadia. It doesn't change the fact, that if reclocked properly, Wadia would sound even better. |
USArmy, you are confused. These companies are just separating parts of a product, a CDP, into more separate pieces. (I don't mean this to sound trivial, no doubt these dedicated clocking devices can be wonderful, but the task is the same, it is most likely carried out to a much higher level in these (expensive) devices.)
Brian |
Brianmgrarcom why do think company's like dcs and esoteric deal with the jitter befor the dac? They have outboard clocks to deal with jitter before the dac does? So just because you dac does a good job of reducing the jitter it cant be better than outboard clock. Empirical audio makes a outboard clock called the pace car 2. I think this could make the wadia a better transport. |
Elberoth, I am all for reading it, if I could get my hands on it. BUT, I have already done this myself so I have personal experience; I also have read numerous comments from others that mirror mine, published and on forums. If others are disapointed, so be it, I have been happily listening this afternoon! |
Talking with one reveiwer in the past he mentioned comparing a couple transports, one expensive, one not, while using a DAC that reclocks and could tell no difference. I recommend reading Martin Colloms review in HiFi Critic. In a 4 page long review, he compared the Wadia iTransport to several, "regular" transports and CD players, and was SERIOUSY disapointed by the results he got. |
What ever the case is the wadia i170 or the ipod it still has a very high measured jitter from the digital output This may not be a reflection purely on Wadia...it seems that ALL digital interfaces suffer from it to some greater or lesser degree. This is WHY it is so important to use a DAC which has some effort made at reducing jitter other than the old and to basic PLL method (various schemes exist form buffering to asynchronous upsampling etc. etc, - pick your posion) |
USArmy, I don't think anyone is questioning your results, but there are many variables here, probably even far more than I know. Maybe your DAC doesn't reclock, maybe it does, maybe this, maybe that...
You say, "Even if your dac does a good job of lowering the jitter its still better if its done in the transport.". I disagree. While the obvious thing is that no jitter anywhere is best, but lowering jitter at the DAC is better. If jitter is dealt with at the transport level, jitter can be introduced again down the line vs. addressing it at the DAC just before it gets converted to analog.
Brian |
What ever the case is the wadia i170 or the ipod it still has a very high measured jitter from the digital output. I just wanted to know how much. The jitter affects the sound quality of the transport, the lower the jitter the better. Just like in a cd transport. I don't if the wadia has any buffers or clock that lowers the jitter in the unit. Even if your dac does a good job of lowering the jitter its still better if its done in the transport. Most everyone will agree that the wadia ipod transport is good for the price. I think their will be better ipod transport out sure they will cost more but you will get better sound quality. Msb has their ipod transport the ilink and its so much better than the ipod. This unit has fifo buffers and clock for a jitter of 7ps. Now i have both the wadia i170 gns co mod and msb ilink. Their is no question the msb ilink is far better than the wadia i170 gns mod. It has taken my wadia 521 gns co modded dac to a new level in bass, mids and highs. Now i like my wadia i170 however if you want to get the best sound out of your dac via an ipod the msb ilink is the way to go. For me i am happy for the moment, i wanted to share my views. |
Brianmgrarcom, thanks i met reference sound in my system. I had my wadia i170 modded by steve at great northern sound co and its about as good as my bel canto cd-2 transport via the wadia 521 gns modded dac. |
Where are these measurements? I am not saying the statement isn't true, I just have never read anything published. Your DIP experiment does raise legit questions. I located where I had read this and it was from Gordon Rankin on Audio Asylum who measured the jitter. Atkinson also stated in the Stereophile review that the jitter was high but didn't specify a figure. The sound I now get also matches my "reference" sound and that's more than I expected! |
The i170 has 0 (no jitter). The jitter is from the ipod that is connected to the i170. I wonder if solid state drives have a jitter component. |
Hens, my DAC does reclock the signal, a must in my buying decision. I think the facts are that the 170i has high jitter as this has been objectively measured. Where are these measurements? I am not saying the statement isn't true, I just have never read anything published. Your DIP experiment does raise legit questions. Talking with one reveiwer in the past he mentioned comparing a couple transports, one expensive, one not, while using a DAC that reclocks and could tell no difference. I talked with Martin Cooper of Wadia early last year, before the i170 was released, and they did have ideas for a separate power supply and the like. As for those considering an i170, I would just be sure you paired it with a DAC that reclocks the signal. Brian |
That is awesome Usarmyvet, but everyones "reference sound" may differ, based on budget. The G08 was my "reference" and the Wadia/DAC combo matched it and has added convenience. |
The wadia is a fine unit for the price. I am just saying it could be better if the unit had less jitter. I don't use my wadia i170 anymore i use the msb ilink ipod transport. The msb ilink jitter is measured at 7ps. The sound i get out of my wadia 521 great northern sound co mod dac is now true reference sound now. |
I think the facts are that the 170i has high jitter as this has been objectively measured. The extent to which this is audible, in my experience, depends on the DAC and its jitter reduction processes. My experience is the same as Brian's - I could not pick the difference between transports when using a common DAC, but only after a DIP jitter reduction device was added to both devices. Without the DIP, using the same non-reclocking DAC, the CD player had better resolution. So Brian, if your DAC does reclock the signal and reduce jitter, this may be the key reason you didn't hear a difference.
Having said that, I agree that Wadia could come out with a higher-end version - perhaps with improved power supply, improved clock and a better digital RCA plug (with a sturdy digital cable, the rca plug on the Wadia moves about disconcertingly). |
Let's not jump to conclusions with no facts. I have compared my i170 to my previous Meridian G08 CDP nd I, and others, couldn't pick which was the source, this includes using the G08 as a transport and connecting it to the DAC I use with the i170. |
Wow that is a lot jitter. Even if your dac does a great job of lowering the jitter its still not as good as the source itself doing it. Why would you accept high jitter in an ipod transport and not in a cd transport? The really good cd transports have low jitter levels. I think wadia should come out with a higher end version of it i170. |
Can't swear to this but I recall one reviewer stating the jitter was over 3,000ps which seems extroadinarily high. Based on the differences I heard when the Wadia was plugged directly into a non-reclocking DAC as opposed to having a reclocking DIP in between Wadia and DAC, I can believe the jitter is very high. Not a problem if you have a DAC which de-jitters/reclocks the signal. |
