I used to think the term "magnetic drive" is a marketing ploy to steer away from the bad rep direct drive garnered. But magnetic drive is indeed a better description, especially for people with negative ideas about the DD genre. Terms like belt-drive and idler-drive are more useful because they describe the interfaces that drive the platter. So if you must, think of the interface in a direct drive is magnetic force that makes the platter spin. So it is "magnetic drive." And this magnetic force is turning the platter 33rpm, which is only half hertz! In a belt drive or idler table, the motor, often times, running at 1800rpm, 30Hz, and is in the audible range, and necessitates motor isolation. DD or magnetic drive does not have that problem. Is it better than belt drive or idler drive? No, but it's a design option up to the engineer. It's really about execution. I believe there are many belt drive turntables cost more than $30k that don't cause such a stir.
I just want to wait for more information about the VPI Direct Drive so I can learn more about its design and implementation. I can't afford one but I sure like to learn more. That's all.
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Fleib: "I got the impression that the Brinkman also uses a magnetic drive where the motor isn't directly connected to the platter." The Brinkmann Bardo and Oasis are both direct drive turntables. They are called by their marketing department as "magnetic drive" but since the motor and platter share the same bearing, the system is direct drive. The platter is a part of the motor where the rotor magnet is attached to the underbelly of the platter and the stator coils (coreless) are below the platter and they complete a coreless motor system that makes the turntable, well, turn. The fear of a motor attaching to the platter would create wanted vibration is a misguided concept about the direct drive genre when that motor spins at 33rpm, about half hertz! PS, The Clearaudio Statement, EAR Diskmaster, and Transrotor TMD and FMD systems are entirely different. They are NOT direct drive. _______ |
New information on the motor of the new VPI direct drive turntable coming from Mark Doehmann of Continuum in Michael Fremer's Analog Planet website because the Caliburns uses a motor from the same manufacturer. Very interesting. Here's what he had to say: Mark Doehmann: "From publicly available information I see the VPI also uses a Thingap TG2310 motor coil which is an off the shelf motor system sans bearing. I was impressed by the low cost method used by VPI engineers to drive the coil effectively as a direct drive system. I'm very familiar with the motor and its true zero cogging performance. In a belt drive system it certainly pays off and the benefits would be translated to a direct drive." There's more in the comment about the 3D arm too, so look it up. Also look up on ThinGap motors. _______ |
Lewm: "The semantics are everything in this case, I think, because those who had poisoned the public mind about DD had repeated over and over for 20 years that there must be a "noise" problem, because the motor is "directly connected" to the platter. Not so." Those poisonous people include, regrettably, some rather intelligent individuals such as Art Dudley, Simon Yorke, various Linn worshipers, et al. As Lew said that the idea of attaching a platter to the motor directly is evil is repeated ad nauseam by notable people is rather shameful. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Back to VPI, I really think they made a marketing misstep on their direct drive model by associating it with the Classic series because since the price discrepancy is so huge that people think it's just a retrofit Classic with DD motor, hence a ripoff. What they should have done is to rename it independently so people right away know it's a flagship product like, for example, the HRX. Back in the days when the HW-19 was ubiquitous (competing with SOTA Sapphire or Linn LP12), they came out with the TNT and nobody seemed to complain at the time. Now, they are left with the chore of explaining the cost of the DD system ad nauseam to those potential Classic upgraders and the cynics. Imagine Toyota comes out with a car costing more than a Lexus model. Oy! _______ |
Suteetat, I agree with your assessment on the production side of the turntable. But I was referring to the marketing side of it by suggesting NOT naming it Classic. Instead, just call it "Direct" would have been simpler and more, well, direct. Calling it "VPI Classic Direct" inevitably would lead people to draw comparison to Classic series of tables, which none surpass $10k and then out of nowhere you introduce a $30K table! I just don't think it's wise marketing.
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Lewm, yeah $30k is a lot of money and there seems to be a few more options in that range and I really think VPI made a marketing misstep. Since I can't afford products like that, I am mainly curious about the technology. I'm not sure you've checked out my _P_O_S_T_ from few days ago about VPI using THINGAP motor. Check it out. The Classic Direct uses the same brand of motor in the Continuum Caliburn and said to be truly "cogging free." The stator design is fascinating. _______ |
02-05-14: Fleib:
"Has the same motor as the Continuum? What does that cost?" Reportedly $4000. But the ThinGap motor does NOT include bearing assembly. It's an off the shelf unit that includes only the rotor with the magnets and the stator that the coils are etched on a cylindrical circuit board. Very interesting technology that claims to have no cogging. VPI has to machine a bearing for it to complete a motor and of course fitted to the platter and plinth, etc... so obviously that adds to the cost. I much rather they just start with a new platform and disassociate it with the Classic series and bump the price even further if they have to and simply announce that's their new flagship. Yes, people will buy $50k turntables but those people don't want to be reminded that it looks like a Classic! Every year there are products with outrageous price but why are people get bent out of shape by the price of this VPI direct drive makes no sense to me, when it clearly uses new technology and refinement. After all there's a tonearm costing $35k.... Time will tell and the market will decide. _______ |
Once again, the motor in the DD is made by ThinGap and it is modified from an off the shelf unit, model TG2310. Click here --> T H I N G A P PS. Do people know they can click on a link when it's underlined?! _______ |
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I agree with Stringreen that the market will decide if the price is right for the VPI Direct. Arguing about the price is fruitless. I applaud VPI for introducing a new drive system from their usual belters.
I know Mr. Weisfeld is a collector of vintage turntables including DD units and his favorite is the JVC TT-101 so it's not surprising that he chose a coreless motor. And I agree with Lewm that coreless motor DD tables have the most pleasing sound, at least to my ears. The ThinGap motor is a very unique approach to the coreless motor genre. The Caliburn uses it for their belt drive table but VPI found a way to apply it to their DD so that's exciting. I look forward to future reviews and if positive, I hope VPI can trickle it down to less expensive models in the future. It's about damn time people are paying attention to DD technology without playing with marketing terms, eg, "magnetic drive," "mag-drive," etc... Maybe even Art Dudley will change his mind one day. :)
Teres was once a belt-drive maker and is now focusing on DD so there must be something to it that lead to such development. Time will tell.
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Well, you can still get a Caliburn for half price on eBay. I think Teres is no longer making their DD tables as they are not featured on their website anymore. _______ |
Here's another positive REVIEW. Not that I can afford it but all the reviews sure make me want to hear it...maybe at one of the hifi shows. . |
The best review is using your own ears. I don't take reviews that seriously like most people so it didn't bother me. It's like porn. Do people take porn seriously? I don't even take the Oscar seriously. I guess if I'm about to spend $30k, I should not be swayed by just a review without listening. But I guess some people do get misguided by reviews. And they do! Maybe I shouldn't have included that link...
Positive reviews are at best just to pique an interest, no more no less, and for me should not be used as a consumer guide. You have to do your own homework.
Back to DD. I hope the buzz about this new table will get people to take motor technology more seriously so the next time they see an expensive shiny belt drive table they will start questioning its wimpy toy motor also being used in a certain Scottish sacred cow.
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