VPI 2nd Pivot for 3D

The cartridge stylus tip is below a " tremendous " task where are generated hard and huge forces when ridding the LP recorded grooves...
Those movements/vibrations are not a tiny ones but huge ones to generates unstabilities at the tonearm bearing where a unipivot can’t handle with aplomb...I’m not talking here if we like what we are hearing through unipivots or dislike, this is not the issue but to stay nearer to the recording that means we need to stay with distortions ( of every kind. ) at minimum and unipivots can’t help to achieve that main target...Can I be wrong?, just tell me.

Yes Raul you are very very wrong and again your flair for the dramatic and extreme are used to support your pronouncements of "fact" and wisdom. In fact the forces involved in LP playback are not "huge" ones at all but teeny tiny forces that are typically in the approximate range of fractions of a gram and it is for that reason that the entire rest of your summation here is as usual for you completely mistaken although you state it with such conviction and presumed authority that it may appear to be reasonable to he casual and uncritical reader and of course if Raul is consistent with his recent behaviors he will now respond by attacking the messenger with taunts and vindictive but frankly this matters not one tiny whit to me. 

 "When this concentration of pressure upon the points of contact is calculated, we find it to be approximately 26 tons per square inch... The most interesting photos to me described the "infinite" amount of force applied to the groove by the spherical and elliptical stylus designs....Since the contact points are rounded, the contact area is infinitely small, so no matter what the tracking force, the tracking pressure at the point of contact is effectively infinite...At that point you have a hot stylus pressing infinitely hard against vinyl and this can easily create substantial softening (melting is not required, in fact melting is not the mechanism that creates the ripples)....because of the small area of contact that exists between the stylus tip and the groove, the pressure against the groove wall can rise up to many thousands of pounds per square inch."

Raul thank you so much for regurgitating this little piece of fantasy I had forgotten about it entirely you did a fine job with cut and paste cut and paste cut and paste. Of course it is wholly fantasy as it's faulty "logic" is based on "infinite" forces and a contact area that is "infinitely small" if you do not see the humor in this then something was lost in translation and perhaps you should read it again rather than just cut and paste cut and paste cut and paste because of course in the real world of turntables used in Music Reproduction Systems there is no such thing as an infinite anything!

Also Raul if you are going to engage in cut and paste cut and paste cut and paste rather than going to the trouble of actually doing your own arithmetic then you should credit your sources and further when you cut and paste cut and paste cut and paste you might want to be a little less selective in your cut and paste cut and paste cut and paste and include disclaimer language such as one of your sources clearly noted at the top of its page that reprinted this "material":

"Shure makes no claims as to the accuracy of the information in the text."

However I do thank you for supplying what I think will be the biggest laughs I get all week it is truly priceless what you have done here and I now realize that you probably really don't intend it to be taken seriously at all but are using a subtle form of sarcasm/humor to entertain us. Very very nice work but of course if I am mistaken about your motives then you will return to insult me as you have elsewhere in this thread under which circumstances I am quite confident that the moderators in their esteemed judgement will delete your remarks again as they have so many times previously regarding your commentary here.

Infinite! Funny! I track at about 2.1 grams what about you, Raul??? :) :)  :) :)  :)  :) :) :)  :) :) :)  :) :) *G* *G* *G* lol!!!

Raul thank you again I am still laughing away over you're logic that relies on the assumptions of "infinites" to arrive at real-world conclusions about tonearm pivots. To help you develop you're own arithmetic model rather than relying on the flawed work of others, here are some steps to follow.

After measuring the coefficient of friction as ratios between pivot points and accounting for the pivot-to-spindle difference as a variance on the ideal transference of rotational convergence, integrate the realtime consequence of the stylus to groove vibrational interaction with the cantilever assembly to arrive at a  deviation (from the theoretical ideal, of course) of the frequency output seen at the phono preamp input while carefully accounting for the impedance and resistive effects that the cables themselves introduce to the ac signal.  The resulting schemas can form the basis of the conclusion regarding the pivot friction forces that influence unipivot tonearms and this will help you synthesize extensible paradigms but please remember that the results you obtain will be limited to the specific example of tonearm that you have so carefully measured.

I do hope that you will share your results with this group so that we verify your calculations.

"If I remember the latest information about was by Dr. A:J Van denHul who measured 160° celcius between the stylus tip and groove"

This is another "funny fact" from Raul that is like his claim that VTF is "infinite" because the contact area of a stylus is "infinitely small" it sure must be a funny world Raul lives in with these "theories" that are "fantasies" that he insists are "facts." Such confusion about such basic things really makes me wonder whether Raul is aware of this confusion he loves to share as "facts" or whether Raul's problems are really much deeper than that in which case we should be feeling very sorry for Raul!

"It has been experimentally shown that with such high pressures and forces of friction between stylus and the vinyl, that the outer skin layer of the record material melts as the tip slides over the plastic and then refreezes almost as fast as it melted. It has been suggested that since the melting temperature of vinyl is about 480 °F (248 °C) that the same temperature exists in the contact area.”

Thank you again very much Raul for supplying the biggest laughs I am getting this week this claim is absolutely astoundingly extraordinary and it is obviously intended NOT to be taken seriously perhaps as a lesson that we should not believe everything we read or perhaps as a lesson that "fake news" is not a new phenomenon! It should be patently obvious to anyone with even a limited understanding of thermodynamics or who even knows how to operate a common household thermostat that a record does not go from room temperature to melting to freezing (!!!!) all in an instant simply because a stylus passes over it. While I suppose a conjecture could be made and it is only a conjecture that a stylus may heat a record due to friction but to suggest that it will melt the vinyl and then FREEZE It is beyond silly it is so funny thank you, Raul!

What would be really great is if we could capture those FREEZING temperatures and conduct them in such a way to offset the heat produced by our tube amplifiers! That would be great especially in the summer months Raul will you please use Google to see if that can be done and then cut and paste cut and paste and cut and paste and cut and paste cut and paste and cut and paste and cut and paste and cut and paste some more and share that with us??? Thank you and thanks again for the big laughs you made my day your stuff gets funnier and funnier.

   "any tonearm suffers from that torional huge forces but the unipivots are where affects in the worst way to that very hard cartridge job."

Raul I can easily see why you promote this belief because how can you have stability when the stylus is lurching from ambient temperature to something hot enough to melt vinyl and then resorts to freezing temperatures as you claimed earlier? Naturally the expansion/contraction/expansion of the pickup arm as it dissipates this extreme heat and cold must be continually expanding and contracting and expanding and contracting and expanding and contracting and so there can be no stability at all by your reasoning! Also, the "infinitely" tiny stylus combined with the "infinite" tracking force you mentioned earlier must also introduce instability because of the constantly shifting "huge" forces that are twisting the arm! It is amazing any tonearm works at all given all of the extreme forces you imagine are happening with all tonearms! What is the remedy for this Raul weren't you going to invent the ideal tonearm what happened to that effort of yours or are you still struggling with those "infinite" forces? Do please answer we all want to know I think about your efforts in this regard to achieve the perfect way to compensate for thehuge infinite forces.

"  Imagine when in true motion ridding those grooves with all those  huge ( every direction ) generated forces ! !"

I know you "imagine" these huge forces Raul but it doesn't make any sense perhaps you should check your VTF todays cartridges track around just a few grams there's no need for "huge" forces if you are using huge forces you are damaging your phono cartridge/stylus/cantilever assembly AND your records! Please get a modern tonearm with a properly matched phono cartridge and the forces you'll need to deal with will be on the order of around just a few grams give or take a tiny bit. Good luck, Raul!

"The important issue here it's that the skate force exist through all the cartridge ridding in a pivoted tonearm...we just can't say: I like it more with out the antiskate mechanism."

For goodness sake Raul yes yes yes we an say that we prefer to use a pivoted tonearm without anitskate because everyone has their own opinion and in fact quite a number of experts who actually manufacture key components to our Music Reproduction Systems say that very thing I am talking bout experts such as Harry Weisfield and Peter Ledermann at Soundsmith these are people who have actually developed products for use in analog-based Music Reproduction Systems and are not simply theorizing from the comfort of a couch in there parents basement! Of course in your world Raul it is all about theory and you rely on developing theories based on others theories but in the real world where actual facts matter things are not so simple so please stop telling people here what to think and instead tells us what you think and maybe WHY you think what you think based on actual experience instead of your idle theories thank you!

"take the best quasi-unipivot design and the best fixed one and through an electronic microscope in slow motion see what is happening at the stylus tip/groove on playback becaause at micrtoscopic levels you, me or any one can't see if exist that wobble in those unipivot designs.
At those microscopic levels we can see that the stylus tip is literally " jumping " in the grooves when ridding and between other things that's why is so important to achieve always a " safe " resonance frequency number between the cartridge/tonearm."

This is so funny again Raul you crack me up when you say "we" who are your speaking for please name these people. After you do that please post a link to a video that shows what you theorize here that is part of your many theories of analog reproduction that exist only in theories and only in your mind and never are backed up with any "facts" other than some funny quote you lift from another website. Raul I do not mind that you share your theories they are very funny actually but your problem with them is you confuse theories with fact and you pretend to speak for other "experts" who you do not name but you never hesitate to demand proof from others about what they sau or you dismiss their opinions because they lack the first hand experience you claim to have but never provide proof of.

" My take is to forget our " preferences " or what we " like " and stay " centered " on what " should be " and start to build the " new " system from here "

Raul you don't get to come in here and dictate what other members should do and how they should think and ridicule their preferences everyone is entitled to a voice here and its about time you recognized that everyone here is free to disagree with you whenever they choose and that they should be able to do this without your insults and pompous pronouncements against them. There's a reason your post above was deleted and as I have said before I think you are posting from your mommy's basement you must live in a very small world to believe that your version of things is the ultimate reality and must be accepted by everyone.