your wait for the "new stuff" could be quites awhile. Especially when you consider how slow the supply of new titles for either format is likely to be. But even more ;important will be the almost total lack a vast quantities of ALL knds of music on vinyl. Even new stuff is more available than you might think until you actually get into vinyl. Also I can't stress enough the pure joy of finding new ways and places to find vinyl and the thrill of discovering music you never even knew about because of the many branching paths open to vinyl hunters. And a very friendly & knowledgeble group of people out there in vinyl land. But be careful! It is a true addiction! Good listening gwood |
Your original post reminded me of where I was 6 months ago. I have pushed the cd envelope as far as it canbepushedWadia 27/27i (Huntley modified) all great wire, power conditioning, etc. I grew tired of waiting for a new / improved digital format that only audiophiles want. Our numbers are too few to drive an economically feasable new medium. Non audiophiles, i.e. 99% of the world population are perfectly happy with cd's at $14.00 ea. Why would they buy new hardware to play $30.00 discs when they are happy with their present players and library of cds. We can all hope and wish for DVD-A or SACD (as I do) but the economic reality will dictate the future formats. My feeling is that there will be no future digital formats with anywhere near the penetration of cd, let alone a replacement of cd. So..... I decided to take the plunge a few months ago, anf couldn't be happier. The bottom line is that vinyl sounds more like real music than any digital I've ever heard, including SACD. SACD is much better that cd, but not as good as vinyl. The above comments are based on what my ears hear and nothing else. If you are interested in hearing what instruments and voices sound like in the real world vinyl does that better. Any other criterion for music reproduction seems misdirected. GO FOR IT !! |
Get into vinyl, it's the ultimate. It's a fun tactile exercise also. Very fulfilling, never disappointing. |
Vinyl has the ability to suck you into a performance in a way that digital can only roughly immitate. Because many of the best ever made records were made years ago. The wait to experience them seems very unwise. I am very fortunate and have many of these captured works of art. Once experienced with their limitless soundstages packed with the emotion and feeling of the performers. It comes much closer to being there and feeling the real presence of the performers than digital. With a properly setup quality table, arm, and cartridge combination you become transported into a new world free of record noise and the constant reminder that digital isn't giving more that just a sample of the promise of a real musical experience. Vinyl is well worth the effort. When you love music as I do. What other options are their? |
I bought a ten-year old Ariston RD-90 turntable, a Benz-Micro Silver cartridge and an Audiomat Phono 1 phono amp - total cost in USD was about $2,000. The sound is so rich, so musical by comparison with even very good cds on a very good cd system. It also opened up a whole new area of enjoyment: shopping for old records. It's great to find a real gem for a few dollars at a used record store or yard sale which makes the latest cd sound, well, just a bit thin. |
The sound quality of vinyl is never going to happen with digital,but the commitment must be there to get involved with vinyl,I did and will probably sell all of my vinyl related equiptment. |
As part of the younger generation (I'm 20) I've spent most of my life with digital. I've put together a wonderful system with a Levinson digital front end. I must admit I thought I was in sonic nirvana until curiousity got the best of me and I got out my mothers old Dual TT and bought a cheap NAD phono pre. While my analog setup is hardly resolving compared to what I'm used to, there's just something there that's just right. It was because of this that I asked the question, vinyl or SACD? I have yet to audition SACD because alot of the dealers whom I have yet to make a major purchase from don't think it's worth thier time to demo equipment to a "kid." Alas, if I had the money I'd jump into vinyl, but I don't. The new formats seem promising from what I hear (from others). I think I'll just wait and see how they turn out. |
Siddh, thank you, but I think I just wait for the new formate. enjoy your LPs and thanks once again. Mohamed |
Before you resign to second best, attempt cajoling a dealer into an audition. Once you hear the warmth, depth and tonal accuracy that is achieved with a great vinyl rig, going back to the digits will be tough. Very, very expensive to achieve top end in vinyl, though. The argument of diminishing returns is nearly always valid, but squeezing the best from your listening material takes some of the best in equipment. I have nearly 1800 records, itle in comparison to some, but more than enough to continue the enjoyment. Pops, ticks and all |
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with me. I really appreciate the fact that you guys take some of your busy time to put down your thought for me. It is great. SO I have decided to just enjoy what I have and stay with digital. Craig, your words hit home. Once again -to all of you- thanks a lot for saving me some $??K. |
Vinyl is great if you are willing to make the investment in time and equipment. Even without it I would not wait around for the "next thing" in digital. There is nothing wrong with what is out there now (standard digital playback)if you match components carefully. |
........some really good posts above, and I appreciate not being "attacked" for my preference for digital-- it's a personal thing. I do agree that you probably have to spend a lot more money to get HQ digital music than you do for HQ analog music, and both Myoussif and I have done that(I have a Levinson 37 transport and 360S DAC). Cheers. Craig. |
2 true that vinyl requires a "commitment" but it's worth it. from your post, myoussif, i assume u already have sum vinyl, leftover from bygone times. if so, u cannot believe how it will sound on a really good analouge frontend. those who say, "u hafta listen past the background" have likely not experienced the velvety background silence that u can attain with a well-cleaned record on, say, a basis debut vacuum tt/ graham 2.0 ceramic arm/ koetsu onyx platinum cartridge combo played thru an aesthetix io phono pre. course it'll set u back a few k$, but what doesn't? the musical experience u may attain is far more satisfying than u can expect with today's digital. and, even if the lp is a dying medium, u can still get around 300,000 more lp titles (new & used) than are available as dvda's or sacd's. |
vinyl *isn't* as convenient as cd, but, when i'm doing serious listening, changing a record every 15-20 minutes is not really a big deal - it's actually a bit of a break to stretch, etc. and, ya, i *do* have to treat my records w/special care, unlike cd's. as far as the inherent background noise, ya, it *is* there on some discs, but, i guess as i've been listening to albums since i was a kid - about 1965 - it really is not a distraction to me. i can listen thru it to the music. i *can* see how it would be annoying, to folks not used to it. regarding onhwy61's comment that it takes $10k for a high-quality analog rig - sure you *can* spend that much, but it's surely not necessary - especially if ya buy used equipment. my current rig, at $2k, i think is pretty outrageous, if i say so myself, and, when done, i will have almost $3k into it. but ya don't have to spend even this much for a rig that'll be more musical than current digital. a brand-gnu rega planar 25 is ~$1300, & it's awesome. regarding digital, i have found that a really excellent preamp helps me to enjoy it - but i still like vinyl better! :>) doug |
Be cautious, be very cautious. I love vinyl and find it far superior to any CD player I've experienced (Wadia, Goldmund, Theta, Sonic Frontiers, Sony) in my system. However, vinyl requires dedication and effort from the user. It's nowhere near as convenient to use (there's no remote control). Every 20 minutes you have to get up and do something. Vinyl playback also requires the listener to understand and execute precise setup procedures. In order to maximize performance you must have a steady hand and know what good sound sounds like. Many people can not deal with this level of commitment. A high quality, but not outrageous turntable, arm, cartridge, phono preamp and record cleaning machine will cost roughly $10,000. It will out perform any and all CD playback systems. But SO WHAT! My advice is to wait. As much as I love vinyl, I recognize that it's a dying format. IMO, CD digital is "okay" to at best "good", hi-bit rate/sample rate digital promises to equal, if not better vinyl as an accurate and musically engaging format. If vinyl was right for you, you wouldn't have posted your question. |
Garfish: Is thread contributions like yours (balanced) that remind me that there are as many flavors as people to like them!! In my experience listening time has decreased due to job / family obligations so less preparation time (no dedicated room and small kids in the house) favours digital in my case (less potential damage to equipment such as TT). A couple of cents here. As you say Cheers! |
.......my mistake re: the other thread I mentioned; see the thread "HOW MUCH $$ IN TT TO EQUAL...." Posted by Mailman. Under System Advice. Also, it looks to me like you are at where I was 2-3 months ago. I ABSOLUTELY HAD TO KNOW what the vinyl junkies always rave about. Well, I tried it and didn't like it for the reasons given. You say yourself that you have very "lifelike" digital that you like very much-- so do I. My recommendation; go out and audition a TT based system-- with your own LPs (buy some if you need to) and see if you like it. It cost me over $500. that I can't recover to find out that I couldn't listen past the LP background noise. But I know what you mean-- If I had decided to stay with vinyl, I would have spent thousands on upgrade after upgrade. Vinyl is not audio nirvana, it's just another music format-- your choice. Again Cheers, and Good Luck. Craig |
Hi Myousiff; You have an excellent CD based system, I would say comparable to mine. And when done right,along with room tweaking, vibration control, good PCs and other wire-- as we have both done, DIGITAL CAN BE EXCELLENT. And that's not to take anything away from vinyl. But vinyl can be a pain to use and you MUST be able to listen "past" the inherent background noise of vinyl to get to the music. Carl had some excellent advice re: using vinyl: you have to like fiddling around with mechanical stuff like cleaning records, keeping everything in adjustment etc., ie you have to enjoy "the process" of using it. In another thread, I told you that I recently tried vinyl and could not listen past the annoying background noise because I have gotten so used to the stone silent background of CDs. In fact, the vinyl background noise gave me a headache every night for the 2 1/2 weeks I used it. I respect those into vinyl (my best audio friend is a vinyl junkie), but decided it's not for me. I hope my choice can be respected too. If you can accept the "considerations" I've noted above, then I would whole heartedly agree with Sedond (Doug), that you should get into vinyl. If you can, get out and audition a TT based system, and take a couple LPs with you. P.S. I believe it's going to be several years before a CD replacement will be viable in the market place, ie a lot of DVD-A titles available. Cheers. Craig. |
myoussif, definitely do the vinyl thing - it will be better'n your cd's & it's here now. i can't argue w/cardinal's recommendation of the linn - it *will* beat your cd's, but so will a rega planar3/sumiko blu-point/creek fono-stage, imho... ;~) i prefer my oracle premiere, updated to mk-v specs (w/exception of the power-supply), sumiko premier ft3 arm, ortofon mc-25fl cartridge, and pentagon ps3 fono-stage. this entire set-up cost me ~$2k. i would take the oracle over the linn, if only for looks, & one could argue all day which one sounds better. in fairness, i'm not done spending money on it, tho - i ordered an origin-live dc power-supply & modded rb250 tonearm - $700 delivered. i also have an almost-new dynavector karat-17 that i've yet to install. lemme know when there's an all-in-one cd/dvd/sacd/etc player out for ~$500 - i will surely be a buyer then! ;~) |
The standard format for vinyl has been set: get yourself a used Linn Sondek LP12 on Audiogon. Sure, one can argue whether turntables X, Z, and Z each do a better job than the Linn at one particular aspect of vinyl reproduction, but why bother? What other hifi product has stood the test of time as well? There are lots of good deals ('tables, arm, and cartridge combos) to be had out there on the web by folks selling their LP12s. Go forth and revolve (at 33 and 1/3). |
Doug, Thank you for the advice. I do have nice digital setup with all the tweaks. Sonic Frontiers Transport 3, Processor 3, Line 3 Preamp, Bryston 7B mono amps, Martin Logan ReQuest Speakers, and Synergistic Research Resl. Reference cables all over. All gear have Symposium platforms under them. And finally room treatments from ASC. So I would like to think that I have some good equipment. That set up gives me very lifelike music that I am very happy with, but what I was wondering about is, am I missing a lot by not having analog gear. Do I take the plunge into it or wait for the universal player? |
*definitely* take the plunge! if you can live with buying used, a $2k vinyl set-up will sound better than *any* current cd set-up at *any* price, imho. also, for best cd sound, don't spend mega-bucks on a cd player - invest it into a preamp instead. example: my brother-in-law currently has a $1100 (retail) alchemist preamp & a $1600 alchemist cd player. he demo'd the new resolution-audio cd-55 in his system, which also includes proac 2.5's, & an audio-research 100wpc ss amp - which is what proac recommends for them. while the cd-55 sounded better than the alchemist cd when run straight-in to the amp; when run thru the preamp, there was no real major differences between the two. *and*, the cd-55 sounded better thru the pre, than when run straight-in to the amp. *and* the cd-55 is *designed* to run straight-in to an amp. he is now going to upgrade his pre, instead of his cd-player. i borrowed his alchemist cd player to compare it to my $500 nad cd-changer (real hi-end, eh?). absolutely no difference when run thru my nice cary slp98 preamp. (soon to be f/s; being replaced by a melos music-director). bottom line: get into vinyl, & wait until there's a player that will do cd/dvd/sacd/etc, before investing any more into *that* format. if you *really* wanna improve your digital-sound, upgrade your preamp! one person's opinion... doug |
