Vinyl Newbie - So Many Questions!


New to these forums and new to vinyl, but longtime audiophile, so I feel comfortable saying that I know what I’m hearing but can’t figure out why. 

It would probably help if I summarize my system to aid in troubleshooting:

Marantz TT 15S1

iFi Zen phono preamp

Naim Uniti Atom as streamer/preamp/dac

Conrad Johnson CAV-45 S2

Klipsch Cornwall IV

I’ll start with the easy one

1.  I followed the setup instructions for the Marantz tt meticulously. Every time I start the motor, the belt squeaks and slips on the motor pulley before getting up to speed. It’s annoying and really cheapens the experience. Is this normal?

 

2.  The sound quality ranges from very bad to very good, largely dependent on the record. I don’t have a large collection as I just started with vinyl, but many of these pressings sound absolutely terrible. Many sound distorted and compressed. Many have tons of clicks and pops. I double checked the settings on my phono preamp which is really just moving magnet. There aren’t a lot of settings. One for MM and three for MC. I connected the phono preamp directly to the Conrad Johnson instead of the analog input on the Naim and while it does sound “better”, it’s mostly the same. 
 

I don’t have another cartridge or phono preamp to swap out and try to isolate the issue. Could it simply be that the phono preamp is defective?  It seems that if the cartridge was defective it would just all sound bad.  Could it be that my system is revealing enough that it’s showing the limitation of the iFI?  I just think it would sound “good” all the time, but never really “great”. Could it be that all of these pressings are so incredibly crappy that I’m hearing just how bad they are?

The couple of “mainstream” records do sound pretty good. Namely Gregory Porter, Adele, Gary Clark Jr, Miles Davis, John Coltrane. But even a couple of those have inconsistently cut holes for the spindle (some of them bind), significant warps, and some off-center labels. The independent stuff is all over the map. A couple of the John Prine pressings sound very good, but have soooo many clicks and pops it’s ridiculous - even after cleaning. And one of them wouldn’t even go on the spindle because the hole was so small. 
 

Anyway, I’m just perplexed and pretty annoyed. I’ve debated buying another turntable (with cartridge) and phono preamp just to see if there’s any change.  Any suggestions?  Is that my best course of action - to just buy another preamp and cartridge to troubleshoot? 

doodledan

Showing 8 responses by lewm

Goofy, I don’t get the impression that some LPs play fine, just that some are less objectionable than others.

I reviewed the Marantz TT user manual. Since Marantz sells the TT, the phono cables, and the Virtuoso cartridge as a package deal, it seems unlikely that cable capacitance would be an issue, although the Zen has a highish input capacitance, and I can still easily imagine the cables add 100pF. However, the OP needs to check out setup first, VTA, VTF, grossly accurate alignment. As I inferred above, one possible way to ameliorate the effect of the high capacitance load on the cartridge is to reduce the input resistor load, which is to say reduce its value which paradoxically increases the load on the cartridge by a tiny amount. I still think it would be worthwhile to try 33K ohms. The only way to do that with this rig is to insert a resistor in parallel with the fixed47K load. This can be done with the inexpensive kit sold by DB systems.

i just looked up the loading kits made by DB and sold by Acoustic Sounds. It’s mainly for MC cartridges, but they do include a pair of blank adapters that could be used for any value needed.

First, get the possible bugs out. Then, if you still feel there’s a problem, think about a phono stage upgrade. But I still say you ought to be getting better results with what you have. IF the cause is an excessive capacitance load, the effect might be ameliorated by reducing load resistance. DB Systems make a kit that might help. By placing selected resistors in parallel with the fixed47K load, you can reduce R . I suggest trying 33K, for example, just to see what that does to sibilance, ticks, and pops.

Let’s forget about the quality or lack there of of new vinyl issues for the moment. You actually have a system there that ought to be capable of very nice better than mediocre phono reproduction. So it is worthwhile to analyze that system first before casting aspersions on the LPs themselves. Are you saying that the RCA’s between your IFI phono and the CJ amplifier are something called “monolith”?The capacitance of those cables does not matter much in this instance. The only thing that is important is the capacitance of the cables between tonearm and the phono inputs on your phono stage. The responder who said you’re ok for total capacitance is wrong because we don’t yet know the capacitance added by the ICs between cartridge and phono stage. I’d bet they add at least another 100pF, so your cartridge is likely seeing >200pF when it’s designed for 100pF. It is going to be a bit difficult to rectify this problem, if it is the reason why you are hearing ticks and pops so often. What happens is that the relatively high inductance of a moving magnet cartridge in combination with the load resistance and with the total capacitance results in a high frequency resonance. With MM cartridges you have to be careful to keep that high frequency resonance well above audibility. When you have too much capacitance, that high frequency resonance will move down in frequency into the audible range. This can result in exaggerated perception of ticks and pops.

Recommended load capacitance for your Virtuoso is 100 pF. MM input C for the Zen is 110pF. So even before adding C due to your phono cables, you are at the outer edge of the C your cartridge “likes”. Cables can easily add another 100pF even if short in length. What cables and what length?

Phono cables?

input capacitance at the iFi MM inputs? (Input stage also adds capacitance. We need to figure out the total capacitance seen by your cartridge.)

The CJ apparently is a “control” amplifier, aka an integrated amplifier. You definitely should connect the iFi direct to the CJ, only. Leave the Naim out of the vinyl pathway. Now you may be able to ameliorate the ticks and pops by proper loading of your cartridge, which remains unknown to me. It’s also important to know what cables you use from TT to CJ. Cables add capacitance. Capacitance from all sources may be creating a high frequency peak contributing to the ticks and pops issue.

 

Also, just for the heck of it, try listening with the dust cover off the turntable. It’s fine to have the dust cover in place when the turntable is not in use, but I am among the many who think dust covers can cause problems when playing LPs.

Doodle, I’ve scanned this thread to find out what MM cartridge you’re using. I don’t find that info. Can you supply it? Also does the Zen provide adjustments for MM gain, and loading of the cartridge? Incorrect loading can exacerbate ticks and pops. Meanwhile don’t spend money; you may not need to. Also, meticulous alignment or re-alignment is very unlikely to help unless you really botched the job to begin with. And there’s no need to run out and buy a US cleaner, either.

Does the Naim impose an ADA conversion on the phono signal? If so that can’t be helping as suggested by your own result connecting the iFi direct to the amplifier (?, or whatever that CJ device is)

The iFi Zen is decent at its price point, and I strongly doubt it’s making some LPs sound bad but not other LPs. The belt squeak seems like an unrelated issue, as you don’t complain of any symptoms associated with speed irregularities.