Victor TT 101 vs TT 81


I am aware of some of the differences regarding the motors of these two units, but I was wondering if anyone had insights as to the differences in sound (if any) and the differences in reliability (I'm guessing the 81 being simpler might be more reliable, however, it seems to have the better motor).  Any info will be appreciated.
rgs

Showing 3 responses by lewm

After this thread died a natural death, I found JP Jones via this forum and via DIYAudio, as well.  JP gained fame among DD-philes by deconstructing the single chip that makes Technics SP turntables run properly and without which they don't run at all.  The chip is no longer available from any source, so JP is a life-saver of sorts.  JP's chip is constructed from discrete parts on a small PCB that is no larger than the original chip when it is mounted on its PCB.  What's more, JP's chip is a tad more accurate than the original in controlling speed.  Anyway, I contacted JP, and he fixed my TT101, nearly two years ago.  It's been running fine ever since.  I was not wrong in my hypothesis, sort of.  JP found a hairline crack in one of the PCBs in the TT101.  A line of solder covers the crack such that when the board was flexed it caused a short circuit that was nearly impossible to see or detect, unless you knew where to look, which JP did.  JP can be found on-line at Fidelis Analog, but alas he is apparently very busy these days.  Still, you could contact him and ask.
Henry, et al.  I thought you told us long ago that the motor of the TT81, while it may or may not be absolutely identical to that of the TT101, is also coreless.  (I made a claim that it was not, which prompted you or someone else to post a brochure on the TT81 that seemed indeed to say it had a coreless motor.) In your initial post on this thread, I am unsure what you are saying vis a vis the TT81, coreless or not coreless?  I do tend to like coreless motors, too, based on the performance of my L07D, as compared to my other DD turntables using multi-pole motors. Heretofore, I thought the major difference between the two is that the TT101 has a bi-directional servo, can correct speed if either too fast or too slow, whereas the TT81 servo is only reading "too slow".

A question, if not a plea, to HWS:  Have you got "a guy" who can work on my TT101?  I'd love to get it up and running, and I have a pretty good idea where the problem lies, just not the knowledge to identify it specifically and fix it.  So far as I know, it does not need a new master chip, but I do have a few spares of those, if that were to be the case.  Like Halcro says, I gave a spare chip to another frustrated TT101 owner in Germany, still waiting for his results.
Dear HWS,  Bill Thalmann's shop is about 20 minutes from me, and Bill has worked on my TT101, twice.  Bill has also worked (successfully) on several of my other DD turntables and on one of my Beveridge direct-drive amplifiers. But when my TT101 was in Bill's shop (last year), the problem was intermittent, and the unit worked fine, for 2 weeks, on Bill's workbench.  We could not make it fail over there.  In my house, it was working OK much of the time but would occasionally malfunction in a way I will describe.  In search of a cause, we (Bill and I) surmised that there was a bad solder joint somewhere. (This is after Bill had already replaced every electrolytic except one and also re-soldered many of the joints.)   At that point, Bill was understandably rather tired of fooling with it.  I am a fairly decent DIYer myself, but not with ICs and not so experienced with any sort of solid state gear.  However, in my spare time and because I have other tt's to use,  I went in there looking for possible bad connections.  I suspected that there may be a cracked wire going into one of the many beige-colored multi-prong connectors that connect different PCBs to each other.   Two in particular on the board that is tucked up under the top escutcheon, housing the servo mechanisms, seemed loose.  So I cut off the beige connectors and hard-soldered those wires to the prongs.  (Both are 4-prong connections.) Along the way, I also replaced the one electrolytic that Bill missed doing earlier; it sits alone in that servo board up under the top piece. 

The result of my labors was to make an intermittent problem into a permanent one!  Here is the failure mode:  The tt comes up to speed based on the tach reading "33.33", but very shortly thereafter, within less than a minute, you will see readings suggesting the speed is off, 33.32 then 33.34, etc, typically.  At that point, the motor shudders significantly and shuts itself down; the platter coasts to a stop with no brake action.  The tach goes blank, except for the decimal point.  That's the story.  This is what it used to do only intermittently.  I must say though that I had not detected the motor shudder symptom earlier, but that may have been because the tt was then bolted into a sturdy  and heavy plinth.  To work on it on my bench, I built a lightweight jig which enables me to flip it upside down easily without risk of damage to the innards.  The jig is supported only by 3 metal threaded rods, which is probably why the motor can shake the whole assembly. The bearing is dead silent throughout all this failure mode.  There is no rubbing sound or other friction noises.  My hypothesis is that the servo is failing in one of the two directions such that the correction mechanisms are fighting each other; that's how I explain the motor shudder prior to shutdown.

I have thoughts of taking it back to Bill, now that the problem is sure to occur in his hands.  He is a superb guy in all ways.  However, I thought perhaps you may have a guy who is steeped in servo technology who might provide some insight.