Vibration - What are the Main Sources?

I’m more and more getting the feeling that there is more than a little quid pro quo happening on this website, name brand advertising for benefits.

is this an admission of guilt? You can tell us, we’re all friends in here, aren’t we?

Maybe one of the haters is having second thoughts

Haters, haters, we see no haters. Much.

He uses isolation. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/615 and cable lifters, what the? Shill?
If you're going to insult someone, because they may be haughty at times, it may not pay to dismiss truth.

rubbed the wrong way nonoise?

Vibrations, the good the bad and the ugly. Obviously we want the good vibrations, and reduce the bad ones. And doing that selectively takes knowledge, and effort and an attitude that will allow for learning.

Sometimes people have vibrations, and these vibrations meet with our own nodes, they are recognised and well, the reaction can be pretty uncomfortable.

Interesting that you chose such a specific injury, close to home perhaps? Repetitive strain injury in your past in the shoulder joint perhaps nonoise?

@hilde45 - have you tired isolation springs? Like even the inexpensive Nobosound type? I have a concrete slab under my system, which is all on springs.

@perki

I kinda want this :)

Minus K

Yes, it's probably the superior passive isolation money can buy. I was also looking into it for myself, and it's really really expensive. I just can't (at the moment) work out how to justify the cost, make it look good and have it work with my stand mount speakers. But yeah, excellent products.

@nonoise - yeah, you're allright mate. I was a bit rude, I regret it now. Apologies.

Yes everything vibrates. But some will gladly play others by stoking fear and uncertainty. Including fear that some undetected vibration will negatively impact some audiophile’s sound. Once a fear of some problem exists you can then sell some expensive esoteric fix that nobody would care about otherwise. It’s how these things work. Marketing is all a game you know.

@mapman
Well the real issue here I take with that comment is that I have actually heard isolation done well, and you can choose to ignore the technology, however it damned well works.

I couldn't care less what brand is used. I do care that such a relevant advancement in the resolution and enjoyment for others would be stifled by misinformation based upon +30 year old ideologies.

And there's more advancement to be used in conjunction with broad frequency isolation, namely, tuned mass dampers. Stick to your guns, but don't mind those of us who are still going to tell you, that you are not correct.

Broad frequency isolation used on traditional speaker enclosures will absolutely improve the resolution of the loud speaker. And it helps with the structure the speakers are played within as well, the substrate, the walls, the component stands.

You are already enjoying broad frequency isolation when you are either a passenger or driving an automobile, perhaps it's time to move forward with your sound too? And even if not, hopefully others will at least discover for themselves that unfortunately, in the particular case, you are simply not correct.

@perki - The minus K approach would require some engineering based upon some pretty complicated math.

If you’re going to order springs for your speakers, some specifications I have found that may help you. (specific to compression springs)

• springs should have approximately 50% compression under load, this aught to allow for the highest amplitude and frequency range of isolation.
  
• the diameter being either greater than or equal to the height of the spring under load will help it to deform along it’s length rather than simply twist and collapse under the load.
• the least number of springs (usually three) the better, and use the same spring rate to level the mass supported, move the springs to positions that level the load. Do not change the spring rates to level the load if it can be avoided, move the springs around the center of gravity.
  
• 4Hz isolation or lower if possible (minus K have some that do 2Hz I think?)
• loads that are tall and skinny (like floor stander speakers) will be able to move when they may be bumped, moving their center or gravity over the base, where gravity will have it’s way with them. Broaden the base so that is much less likely to fall and get damaged
  
• the substrate supporting the springs is another factor to consider, the more the springs deform to the load’s movement the better

If you consider the speaker cabinet to be somewhat like a very rigid balllon, the lower frequency driver will create a high and lower pressure within the cabinet. This will push and pull at the walls of the cabinet, much like pulling and pushing a post, which at the right frequency with the right amount of force will move back and forth.

These high and low pressures in the enclosure will energise the nodes of the cabinet. Nikola Tesla is an interesting read, and Mythbusters did an excellent episode with a bridge regarding that science. The walls of the enclosure will move in much a similar manner to a balloon. My speakers have been made from composite materials, lined with steel plates, and they move, their nodes can be heard by wrapping my knuckles on them.

Instead of thinking of a speaker enclosure as an entirely rigid structure, consider it to be an ever morphing shape energised by the drivers during playback, especially when played loudly. So instead of it moving on it’s base, the idea of springs is to keep the center of gravity as virtually stationary as possible, trying to keep the drivers held in relative space to the listener.

I believe the premise is that the speakers are resting motionless on the springs at a specific tension and the function of the spring is to isolate/dissipate vibration.

Dissipation of cabinet frequencies can be better achieved by using TMD (tuned mass damper) technology. This technology is used in modern high rise buildings with great success.

https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/38947 If it's of any interest?

Basically a TMD for a speaker will allow it to be decoupled from the cabinet, and yet reactive to the vibrations of the cabinet, so that it can cancel out the vibrations by being out of phase in it's motion to the cabinet.

So the springs from below are being deformed by the cabinet, transferring kenetic energy to heat through the springs, and the sprung mass on top moving out of phase with the cabinets to oppose the energies each see from each other.

I know, it may sound absurd, however, in person it sounds truly superb.

If the tweeter and woofer did not move, you would have one quiet speaker!

hahahaha yes, silent

@georgehoffmann60 - so long as the springs are correctly loaded for broad frequency isolation. It works for you, that works for me :)