Very good AES presentation on inter connects and ground loops.

Hello tvrgeek.  I wanted to get a look at your system to see where you are coming from.  No luck there.  There are some holes in your arguments.  But first, I read the paper and my interpretation is the author is for balanced connections.  He made the comment that SE, RCA connections should have gone away decades ago.  

I agree that older audio gear electrical and grounding methods needs to be looked at closely for both safety and S/N issues.  I can recall as a kid in the 1960s getting zapped when touching the metal frame of my grandfather's b&w TV.  Yes, I was  barefoot on a concrete floor.  It was a pretty strong shock.  Newer Tube gear made on the US and EU seem to be good and I think most top brand SS gear going back decades is good.  I stick to the well known brands after having bad experiences decades ago with newcomers or flash in the pan brands that were not so well made on the inside.  Caveat Emptor is always the case.

The author expounds a lot on house wiring.  I can agree with him.  I found in the late 1980's my ARC SP-6b could tolerate no dimmers in the house at all.  They all had to go.  My newer ARC gear years later I found, did a much better job at rejecting noise.  I wired in my own dedicated power lines for my stereo.  (I'm a licensed professional engineer but also am experienced at wiring houses.)  One thing that annoyed me is whoever wired my house mixed the White wires and ground wires on the ground busses.  I know it doesn't matter but I like things looking nice and neat.  I cleaned them up as best I could.  

The author also made a very good point that everyone should take note:  Don't operate your audio gear on a separate ground rod.  You can have multiple ground rods but they must all be tied together as one, back to the main breaker panel.  

Redbook CDs have limitations as compared to the master tape.  That doesn't mean that converting to hi res is pointless.  It's more about the filters and the skill of the engineer than the technical matters.  CDs have less limitations than LP's.  And yet Vinyl sounded better for many years.  I was convinced CDs were inferior until I got my new DAC and CD Transport a couple of years ago.  That opened my eyes to digital music.  Today I can enjoy both sources equally.  They each have their own characteristics but it is more of a flavor rather than a deficit or advantage.  Vinyl was considered an inferior source well into the 1980s.  Ironically, CDs seemed to elevate the status of vinyl back in the 80s and 90s.  What was better than vinyl, you ask?  R2R master tapes.  The hardcore audiophiles back in the day would listen to nothing else.  I think vinyl sounds great.  Shows what I know.

Comparing how things sound at a hifi shop is a no go.  Even the most high end boutique stores have one goal:  Move product.  They don't have the time or interest to dial a system in to within a 1/4" when everything is likely to me moved the next day or next week.  Even at my favorite audio store in Michigan decades ago, Harry would pull the Magenpans away from the wall and roughly position them if you wanted to hear that system.  It always sounded great but imagine if the room didn't have all the other gear stacked up in there and the panels were dialed in precise.  Secondly, audio stores have dirty power and lots of EMI from lights, other businesses and all the other gear operating in the room/rooms.  I begged the owner of a store to just buy a couple of FMCs to isolate his ethernet optically.  He is demonstrating DCS and Chord DACs.  They sound so lackluster when he is streaming with them and I know it is due to noisy ethernet.  Sure, high end gear should not be affected by noise coming in.  And apples shouldn't start rotting when they fall off the tree.  In the real world we have to isolate and protect our precious, tiny little signals from our tonearms, our streamers and our preamps from the harsh and cruel disruptors of RFI, EMI and even mechanical vibration.  

I don't think you can expect manufacturers to anticipate every possible scenario for noisy power, noisy environment, vibrations, RFI, EFI, etc.  The costs would be very high for those components.  Should everyone pay for those features if they do not need them?  They design to standards and our homes must conform to certain standards.  The same for the modem and router.  Beyond that, it is up to us- the hobbyist to either accept the performance as is or experiment and find ways to enhance the sound.  That goes from what is most obvious and accepted such as isolating your turntable from mechanical vibrations to the more controversial audio grade Ethernet switch and silver plated Ethernet cables.  Results vary from user to user which should be no surprise.  A DAC or music server may already have adequate isolation or perhaps its performance is of such a low level that a difference cannot be detected.  

I have an 8 meter run of balanced cables from my preamp to my amps.  My shorter runs are also balanced connectors.  Nowhere here was it mentioned that the output of DACs and preamps is higher for balanced out than for SE.  I consider that another benefit.  I also like the connectors much better than RCAs.  Some electronics may have XLRs but not be a true balanced design.  In that case figure no electrical advantage over SE.  

Hello tvrgeek.  I would point out to you that if you look at my system page, (something you might want to post as well) you will see that my phono preamp sits directly below my turntable.  I will also mention that the cable from my turntable plus the cable from my phono preamp to preamp likely cost more than your stereo system based on what I have read into your posts.  I’m not even talking power cords yet.  I’m not bragging.  I am pointing out to you that you have no idea what audio can do.  You will not experience it with a short visit to a high end store.  If you are lucky, you might catch a shadow of a glimpse of the possibilities at a well run, well set up store.  Audio sound reproduction has levels that go beyond what you  think you know is possible- but it is not cheap to get there.  For example, audio can create a holographic sound stage that puts sounds in various points in space from the floor to the ceiling and beyond the walls and in some cases behind the listener- all with just two speakers.  It is not just sounds but actual body, shape to the sounds.  When I got to this level I was playing my Pink Floyd DSotM album.  At the end of side two the laughing voice was right at my ear.  I jumped out of my chair the first time that happened.  A Roger Waters album plays sounds 90 degrees to my right and my left.  It’s uncanny.  I don’t know how they do it.  Sure, its about phase and amplitude in each channel.  No VR glasses needed.

 Beyond that and more amazing is how a high level system can convey the soul of the musicians.  That’s the best way to put it.  This is going well beyond making sound, good bass or clear highs.  These are systems that invoke emotional and physical responses.  Systems that make you feel what the performer is feeling.  Systems that can make you soar, make you sad, invoke tears, goosebumps and toe taping.  A good system can build that intimacy just as if you are sitting at the front table of a small club.  Carly Simons live Grand Central recording is fun to listen to.  The ambience comes through so well it feels like I am standing in Grand Central.

These types of systems are not plug and play no matter how much one may spend.  They require tuning, and yes some tweaking.  The room is as important a component as the amplifier.  Cables matter.  Good cables cost a lot.  Opinions abound in these threads about what makes sense and what doesn’t but until you have experienced it for yourself it is something difficult to believe is possible.

Hello tvrgeek,  I see that you just don’t get it.  That’s ok.  Hifi is not for everyone.  If you truly heard a high end system and were not moved, then you are fortunate in that you will not be driven to pursue a similar, expensive system.  On the other hand you are most unfortunate to be unable to experience something more than the mundane.

You know, throughout my long engineering career I got to live and work in a couple of other countries.  I count 42 countries that I have visited- many I spent more than just a few days in.  I can share the experiences with others who have not traveled but they cannot know what it is truly like to visit those places and experience the food, the people and the culture.  Even watching programs showing various places or reading books about them is not the same as a first hand experience.  For example, standing inside the Grand Hall of the Great Pyramid is a great experience that can’t be understood without having been there.  The Grand Canyon is another such place.

You mean the paper that you misinterpreted- or at least twisted to fit your narrative?  How does that help anyone?

I understand you.  You employ the term, “snake oil” often and claim cheap cables are sufficient.  Clearly, you are a denier.  You believe that if you can’t hear something then it doesn’t exist- an even better thrill for you is when measurements are unable to pick up differences.  Your assumption is that if someone can hear something you can’t then they must be delusional.  The way you like to slip in insults and digs, making you feel clever and pithy suggests that you cannot or will not buy high end gear and so it bothers you that others do.  How many “delusional” people buying expensive cables would it take for you to believe that they might actually be hearing something?  How about one.  If one person can hear a difference then why can’t you believe them?

Hifi isn’t about how much money you can spend.  Hifi is about great sound reproduction.  Sure, it can get expensive real fast.  For many years I was a DYI’er.  I couldn’t afford the super high end gear.  Like I said before, the room is one of the most critical components.  I had a listening room that I designed and built myself in 1994.  But then I moved out of that house in 1996.  That was the best my system sounded until a couple of years ago.  And that system back then was just some planar speakers, an old heavily modified ARC SP-6b preamp, a couple of different SS amps and Sota Turntable.  I used some KimberCable and Monster Cable back then.  The system rocked.  My system today is on another level entirely.  It took much more than money.  I have spent many hours going through different cables, ethernet configurations and building the room to achieve the sound I have today.  That includes dedicated power lines (something I have had in place in every house since 1989).  I spent months researching streaming and trying different gear that didn’t work out so well- cheap gear actually, until I found the right combination of streamer, power supply and ethernet switch to get streaming  to sound as good as CD.  See, I don’t have to shop for CDs now.  I have millions of songs at my fingertips with Qobuz and it sounds amazing.