Vandy sub owners-crossovers for 2WQ

I agree that the guidance on choosing the impedance/crossover point is confusing. I did some extensive experimentation with my own Vandy crossovers, and also helped a friend set up his 2Wq subwoofer, and the results yielded more variation than I expected.

Setting the impedance/crossover point to one level below the amplifier's input impedance seems to "fatten up" the overall bass response. However, the exact results were not the same for the several different amps involved. My own system has a Bryston 4B-ST amp, and in this instance I did eventually set the crossover to exactly match the 50K ohm impedance of this amp. I did not care for the tonal balance when using the next lower crossover setting. (Interestingly, John Rutan of Audio Connection had advised me that Bryston amps tended to be a little "squirelly" in this regard, and John suggested trying a setting one step above the input impedance, a setting that matched the input impedance, and a setting one step below the input impedance.)

With my friend's system, which uses Adcom power amps, we found the best setting overall was one step below the 50K ohm input impedance. Setting the crossover at the 50K ohm level resulted in bass that was too lean, and a mid-range balance that was a bit "off" (sorry for the technical terms like "fatten up" and "off", but they're what come to mind).

To get a specific answer to your question about why one would set the crossover point at one level below the input impedance of the amp, you may have to contact Richard Vandersteen for more info.

Bigtee. This very issue has caused me alot of anguish. AVISO! CAUTION! WARNING! DO NOT CONTACT RICHARD ABOUT THIS!! Scott is only trying to be helpful with the suggestion of calling Richard but I have done the very thing he is suggesting and I regret it! Richard came unglued!
My dealer told me that I should experiment until I found the setting on the box I liked best once the woofer was fully broken in. I setteled on the 100k setting finding it to sound best to my ear in my system(which happened to be the input value of my amp). I then went back to the dealer to order the x-2 fixed filters and told him this information. The dealer then said "The procedure is to order the next value down.", in this case the 75K X-2 fixed filters. ($125 a pair I might add)I went along with this since I figured, he is the dealer and must know something about this that I don't. I got the 75k x-2 filters and they did sound better than the "box"(WX-2), but I beleive it had more to do with eliminating the sound of the WX-2 and the colorations of the second set of cables. I started to question the "next value down" thing after another dealer had made it quite clear to a friend of mine that had a very similar(same brand of amp with the same input value) system that the way to go is with the 100k X-2. I have had several other dealers tell me since that it "usually" works best with the filters or the setting on the box that match the input of the amp. My dealer later told me when I asked him about the logic of buying the next value down as he had suggested, that he had never said that to me, and that I was one of those guys that always worries about his system(he already has my $$$$$). My dealer doesn't know his ass from his elbow! I just bought a set of 100k X-2's (used) and they sound great in my system! The 75k's are for sale here on Agon if anyone needs a pair. The whole point is that "one setting below" is ONLY a starting point. Use the setting or the fixed filter value that sounds best in YOUR system.
Richard can't understand that many people are confused by the way the manual is written, including his own dealers. I told him a friend of mine also had some confusion about it and he suggested that my friend was a "moron". Well Bigtee you and I are both "morons". DON'T CALL RICHARD! It seems that phone calls anoy him, but it seems to me he would figure out that there needs to be some imrovement or clarification in the way the procedure is explained, and then he may not have to talk to us "morons"!

Thanks guys. I noticed in the owners manuals I received with both subs that the section about the filters was repeated twice. One section said next value down period and the other said try one up, one right on and one above. I mean two complete sections. Go figure. Anyway, the one down sounds a little on the heavy side and the one that matches the impedence sounds a bit lean unless you run the sensitivity control up a few DB. One over is lean period. I'm trying to match the things with his speakers(3A Sigs)They blend seamlessly but I can't seem to get the output right on. Any insight you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated. Any little secrets? Sometimes the dealers remind me of car salesman, they just sell! I bought the subs new from a dealer on the other side of the country, Aris Audio in Utah. Scott is a really nice guy and I'm very satisfied with the way he handled the sale. I'm in SC. He told me to try and match what sounds best(like yall have) and go with it. I guess that's about all you can do. I thought I might try e-mailing Richard Hardesty and see if he could enlighten me. Hopefully he has a secret since he seems to be a Vandersteen guru. I've talk to Richard V. on the phone and in person. Most of the time he seems OK but I did notice he gets testy---maybe its harmones!

Don't worry about what the sensitivity setting on the back of the woofer reads. Sounds like you have it about right with the impedence matching and the woofer level adjusted to suite your room.
After you get it dialed in get the fixed X-2 filters in the value you liked best to get rid of the WX-2 like I have or buy some model 5 filters like Sdcampbell uses.
You might try listening to a test disc like the one Stereophile produced with bass warble tones just to give you a reference point for level.Pop and Rock Recordings vary wildly these days as to the amount of bass, so use the best acoustic bass recording you have for the final level and setting evaluation. I like a Bobo Stenson Trio disc, titled "War Orphans" on ECM, track 2. You will still find recordings that sound "heavy" after you are done, I think it is the recordings and probably not your rig.
I'm going to try an ASC bass accelerator sub stand for mine, which should give me even more clarity and punch in the lows. ASC Tube traps would be next but I don't have it in the budget. Make sure that you have good isolation under all your electronics ecpecially the source components. Vibrapods are a good start or a Bright Star Air Mass or Big Rock would be even better. It will clean up everything and give you real athority in the bass. Two 2Wq's are going to move air like crazy and make real isolation critical especially if you run tube amps and pre amps.

I also made the mistake of calling Vandersteen Audio on this issue. It was such an unpleasant experience that I immediately sold the two subwoofers and cancelled my order for 2 VSM1's. This is clearly a hot button issue for Dick Vandersteen. You would think that the guy could get someone other than himself to field questions from the unwashed moronic public.

It is also my experience that Vandersteen dealers are by and large poorly informed on this topic.

Product -- A+ Customer Relations -- D-

just purchased a pair of 2wq's, here's my take: i believe that the manual says to leave the x-over 1 level below until the subs are broken in, then experiment with 1 above, right on, and 1 level below.

aloha keith

BigTee--

ArisAudio is my local dealer, and you're right, Scott is a great guy to work with. One of the great dealers out there.