I just came upon this excellent thread today. Love the passion for the hobby that I've been reading here. I am 10 days into owning my new Treo CTs. I have played music and the Purist Audio Design System Enhancer disc to break in the drivers and crossover components continuously. Out of the box revealed the promise of fine sound...they just needed time to get there. Well, they are pretty much there. I am using mine with a pair of 2wq subwoofers. The Treo CTs mate beautifully with the subs.(expected) I have had to turn down the gain on the subs. from where they were set for use with my 3A Sigs. Look... set up and system being equal, the Treo CTs are much more detailed but at the same time smoother....more refined than the 3s that I owned for 22 years!! I would never go back, but I also have countless fond memories of enjoyable 3A Sig. listening sessions. Richard knows who he is what his design concept is about and he has simply?? refined that concept over time applying ever more sophisticated driver and crossover components into his designs. The laudable comments about Johnny R at Audio Connection are spot on. Just met him 10 days ago and enjoyed the couple hours we spent in his shop. He knows electronics and speaker design concepts and "gets" Vandersteens.
One thing we all need to remember, Vandys will never be for everyone with passion for this hobby. If they were, there wouldn't be gazillions of speaker designers out in stereo land! I understand Richard's design goals and the meticulous nature in which he has met success throughout his career as a premier designer. Appreciating the amazing attention to driver, cabinet and crossover details, the Treo CTs are to me yet another amazing offering of extreme value from Vandersteen Audio. |
@ig316b I just looked up your system. Very nice gear. I see we share an appreciation for upgraded McCormack components! I truly hope you get the chance to hear Treo CTs. I have had Vandersteen 2C, then Model 3 upgraded to 3A, upgraded to Signature status. After reading about the Treo CT and talking with John Rutan at Audio Connection in Verona, NJ, I ordered a pair of Treo CT unseen and unheard. I know what Richard Vandersteen is after having owned his speakers for over 30 years. I have had the Treo CT for about 7 weeks now. They are everything you would expect of Vandersteens at their price point, incorporating Richard's latest thinking in speaker design. Again, the 3A Sigs. are fine speakers and unbeatable at their price point. If you can pull together the cash, the Treo CT or Quatro CT would be a significant upgrade in your listening experience. Having two 2wq subs. I chose the Treos and couldn't be happier.
Hey, if moving up is not in the offing, you can continue to enjoy music through the excellent 3A Signatures. All the best! |
When I was debating my Treo CT purchase reading the "Ask Richard" section on the Vandersteen site helped a lot. Richard's comments about the 3A Signature vs. Treo are pretty consistent. Finally received my 5 year warranty certificate in the mail today. |
@carmenc Speakers can be tough decisions as there are countless well and less well known brands out there. Vandersteens never disappoint musically. Even the modest Model 1s are amazing. I strongly encourage you to go with the Treo CT. I will say the carbon tweeter takes a lot of time to fully break in. When it does, well recorded cymbals take on the brassiness and the correct timbre. Was listening to a Mapleshade jazz CD the other day and you could hear the drummer transition between a larger ride to a smaller ride cymbal because of the change in timbre between the two. Wow. If you like listening to the finest of details like that you will be enthralled. Another thing..., No metal in the tweeter means no ringing. I never realized how much of that can come from even the finest of metal domes until I heard its absence. The depths of the soundstage are illuminated. Its like a pristinely clean window. |
@carmenc @ctsooner Wow this sounds like a win win for both of you. Agree with ctsooner about the ceramic coating. As I understand it, Richard employed the ceramic coating to greatly reduce the ringing. I have not had the good fortune to hear that tweeter but knowing Richard he rarely if ever shoots blanks when it comes to implementing a design.
carmenc I'll look forward to hearing from you once you guys can get together to do the deal.
All the best!
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If you are into the "hifi" end of things and prefer the excitement of a speaker that flaps your pant legs then you will probably be attracted to studio monitor types or speakers that command your attention by asserting themselves at you. Vandersteens are speakers that tend to invite you in to listen through them. The soundstage is at or slightly behind the front baffle of the speakers. Many more aggressive designs will image in front of the plane of the speakers and present an exciting initial reaction. They jump out demanding to be noticed.
In my experience the conversation around such hifi-ish designs centers on discussing the individual drivers' contribution to the sound rather than the beauty of the music being listened to. There is a population in the audiophile realm who are into the excitement of the sound and hear that assertive approach as realistic, portraying what they perceive as a greater facsimile of a live musical event. If that's what they perceive as satisfying, then they should pursue such designs and steer clear of Vandersteens.
As much as I embrace the "Vandersteen sound" I have listened to and appreciated the Proacs, Wilsons, and numerous other designs that make some fine, clean sound. With Vandersteens and especially through my recently acquired Treo CT, the music is the driving force when I decide to listen. The speakers disappear as the sound source and the soundspace takes over. It's an invitation to listen rather than a command to do so.
Sorry for the length of this but I am struggling to find a way to express this without dismissing the more assertive design approach. I know several listeners for whom the more assertive approach is the more musically satisfying way to go. If that is what they hear as musical truth then so be it. I am happy that they are where they want to be.
Last thought...I have not met the listener described above who "hates" Vandersteens. They will describe their experience listening through Vandersteens as "enjoyable" but lacking the ultimate excitement they crave. This fact is why there are so many different brands and types of loudspeakers readily available in audio-land. |
I have had a pair of Treo CT for two months. I have been listening to Vandersteens for the last 30 years, starting with the original 2C, then model 3 to 3A to Signature. The Treo CT is the same as the Quatro CT Wood minus the built in subwoofer system. I went with the Treo CT as I already have two 2wq Vandy subwoofers. If you haven't made a significant investment in subs. and crave deep, well-controlled, powerful bass then the Quatro would be a great way to go.
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@nrenter You may have! As I type this I am listening to Bobby Battle's "The Offering" on Mapleshade and I want to go upstairs to watch a particular show on TV but I keep finding excuses to stay and listen a little longer. That may be one of the most meaningful tests of how much you love what your system is allowing you to hear and enjoy.
Lucky you, you are ahead of me by 6 months. I'll have to try to catch up.
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@mr_m great post above. I also have Treo CT. I have two 2wq subwoofers and agree completely with what you said referencing dynamic life and the opening up of the soundstage with the quality deep bass from the subs.
Interestingly if you read the online magazine "Copper" located at the PS Audio website, their latest issue, #14 has an article about what subwoofers can do for a system. You are echoing a good bit of what he said.
Enjoy the music! |
@mr_m If you do go with the X-2 at first, do you know what impedance you would need based on your power amp?
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@mr_m I have the M5-HP adjustable Vandy crossovers. I have two 100k ohm X-2 in mint condition if that would happen to be the value you need . I was just looking at your integrated online but could not find the input impedance listed. You would want an X-2 that is roughly 1/2 the input impedance of the Rogue.
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@mr_m I bought them a number of years ago when I first got my subs. so I had no idea of what they cost. I called Vandersteen today to find out that a new pair of X-2 crossovers is $140. They are worthless at the moment stored in my stereo room closet (they are in the original sealable plastic bag with the owner's sheet). I would be willing to part with them for $40 including shipping cost. That might net me enough for a new SACD or 180 gram LP. If they are not the right value for you I would honor that price to anyone in the continental U.S.
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@gregorycarlson I'm curious...How long have you had your 3A Sigs. and did you buy them new?
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As a long time 3A Signature owner who is listening to Treo CT for the past two months. The resolution, smoothness of texture and dynamic drive of the Treos put them in another league entirely from the 3A Sigs. However, I have two 2wq subwoofers along with the Treo CT so I can't relate to the less than satisfying bass response. If you are listening mostly to hard rock type music, absent the subs. I can see where they would be more enjoyable for you. I have said many times on this forum, for as amazing as the Treo CT is, the 3A Sig. is a great value and in your case, has the several Hz at the bottom end that you need. Enjoy your 3A Signatures!
Remember one thing about Vandersteen Audio. Richard never comes out with a new design that is more expensive that does not deliver the musical goods commensurate with its price point! I have so much faith in that, that I bought my Treo CT unseen and unheard. The only surprise for me is that they are so more highly resolved and present such a sophisticated sound. Every time I leave my listening room a have a big smile on my face.
As for you, I hope you leave your listening sessions smiling as well.
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@ig316b I just looked at your virtual system. You have a very well thought-out rig with high quality gear. Seeing your system, if you do decide to move to the Treo CT, with Three! 2wq in your expansive space, you will be able to realize the high level of sophisticated sound that your gear is capable of. Again...no slam whatsoever on the 3A Sigs. it's just that once you hear what the more advanced drivers and crossover of the Treo CT deliver, you will be joyous at hearing the rest of your quality system for the first time.
All the best!
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ekimg The Treos are only 85 db efficiency. I have no knowledge about your particular tube amp but even 22 TUBE watts sound a bit lean for the Treos. Perhaps you could take your amp to the dealer to find out?
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@cajunbaseball
Congrats on the Treo CTs! 😀
On the day I picked up my CTs I listened to Vandy 1Cs with the Quicksilvers. Magical!!! I use SS with my Treos but I would love to hear my Treos with the Quicksilver.
Good luck with the decision. |
