Vandersteen Sub woofers v Rythmik Subs


I really love the idea of the Vandersteen Subs where they are connected with the mains via extra speaker cable off right and left channels off the main amplifier, which is supposed to provide better bass transition from the mains while keeping the signature from the main amplifier. My question is with Vandersteen coming out with the SUB THREE and the price going significantly higher, I was wondering if there are other subs for less that you could integrate in the same way. (Most subs seem to rely on the line level input which is just a sub-woofer RCA going from the pre-amp to the amp on the sub). Can this same Vandersteen set-up be achieved with other subs?
I picked Rythmik since they are known (in the home theater community anyway) for being one of the best bang for the buck subs and the most "musical" of the bunch. (between Hsu, SVS, PSA).
And could I possibly achieve even greater sub-woofer nirvana since I could get an 18" for around $1500? Vandies only have 3 eight inchers.

I am a Vandersteen fanboy and I would like to support RV whenever I can, but don’t know much about my other sub-woofer options so looking for some feedback. Doesn’t even have to be related to Rythmik necessarily. If you know of other subs that can integrate the same way I want to know about it!

Thanks
bstatmeister

Showing 23 responses by bstatmeister

Thanks for that input. My main focus is definitively being true to the music. The minute that I hear bloated, boomy bass I would want to chuck that subwoofer out the window. I guess I am sticking with Vandersteen. Thanks again.
Richard Vandersteen agrees "the more subs the merrier.....however, if only one....I'd Vandersteen it. 

Yeah, I figured I'd probably need to RV it to get what I want (and I also have the 2C's so would be a great match all the way around) I just thought I would put the feelers out in case there were any other musical subs that could get me the same type of sound/integration without having to spend so much. RV is hard on my wallet!
05-07-2018 4:04pmHi bstatmeister,

Here’s an excellent alternative if you want state of the art bass response and your room can accomodate this system in your room.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system/

I was considering buying 2 very good subs (Vandersteen, REL or JL) a few yrs ago but bought a distributed bass array system instead based on a lot of in room bass response research I read online and the numerous very good reviews of the Audio Kinesis bass system.
At first listen in my room, I was amazed at the quality of the bass produced and how well it integrated with my main speakers. 2 yrs later, I’m still extremely pleased and I don’t believe 2 or fewer conventional subs would be capable of producing this level of quality bass response in my 23 x16 foot room.
This is a great option if you prefer bass that is tonally accurate, natural but still able to go as deep and impactful as .the recording calls for

There’s only one other person on this forum that I’m aware of who uses a distributed bass array sub system. I forgot his user ID but I remember we both agreed on another thread that it’s hard to overstate how well this concept actually works in our rooms.

System Pros:
-Performs and integrates well with virtually any brand and type of main speakers.
-Performs equally well for both music and home theater sources.
-Gives good bass response throughout the entire room, not just at a single’sweet-spot’.
-Relatively affordable at about $3,000 for the entire bass system: 4 subs and a 1,000 watt class AB amp. About the same price as 2 high quality conventional self-powered subs.

System Cons:
-Requires the space in your room for four 3 foot tall subs with about a 1 sq. ft. footprint.
-Requires a precise and time consuming setup procedure for sequentially locating the exact position of each sub in your room for optimum results. It took me about 2 hrs with a friend assisting to setup my 4 subs. Once this initial positioning process is completed, however, no further work is needed unless you move your system to another room or house.
-Depending on your room, concealing the speaker wires could be difficult. I drilled a hole underneath each sub and hid the wiring in the crawl space underneath my living room. A real pain the ass but probably something I won’t be doing again anytime soon.

Just an alternative option you may want to consider.

Tim
Wow, thanks Tim, I had no idea a product like this was out there and at a comparatively low price to boot. Here are the things I would worry about: the WAF (yep the WAF strikes again for this one)
Integration with the mains - Does it do it the way the Vandersteens do with an external cross-over that lowers the output 6db? Also the Vandersteens keep the signal in the analog realm. Is my understanding of the AudioKenesis that a DSP would be involved to manage the bass? If so, I think that would turn me off. I want that signal as analog as possible.
Take some Bjork tracks, crank the volume up, and sit there with a silly grin on your face as the bass pressurizes the room (this is with a pair of 2Wqs, btw).
When I crank just my 2C's I already get the silly grin. I imagine if I hooked up a pair of 2wqs, the grin might turn into a permanent deformity :0

I happen to own them both and neither one obliterates the other. They are different paths to the same goal.
How do you implement the Rythmik sub? Do you use the line level in from the preamp/receiver subwoofer output?
I guess I am confused about the differences in the way you configure the Rythmik via the speaker binding posts compared with the way the Vandy does it. I know you have to put in an analog high pass filter between the amp and the preamp in order for the bass to be correct once it gets to the vandy. Can you do this with the Rythmiks, as well? Or do you just send the full signal in? if you do send the full signal in is it proceeded digitally in the on-board amp? I guess I am still fuzzy on the filtering/signal processing options and what the pluses and minus’s are for the different types.
For me what's most important is to have the best experience possible in the sweet spot. How the bass does in other parts of the room is not as important as that precious, precious sweet spot. I think my game plan is to get 1 vandy sub to start with, then add a second once funds recover. (I will put the first one in the corner behind the left front main, then once I get a second, I will put it in the corner behind the right front main). Based off what I've heard I will not find anything as musical as the Vandersteen sub. Being musical is paramount. Although I enjoy home theater and would love to get the "dishes shaking off the shelves" effect, I really only care about how good I can get my 2-channel  analog system to sound.
Lol. Does it make a difference? I think RV just said "a corner" for his recommended placement. Not sure he specified right or left if you only have one...
Are the M5-HPs variable like the  MX-2? or do you have to order them fixed based off the impedance of the amp?
What are the differences between the dip switches and the pig tails? Is there a default?
What about the M5-HP with balanced connections? As a nice monkey wrench, my current preamp situation is this:
preamp out with unbalanced RCA into a Samson S-convert, then outputted to my amp with balanced cables. (in this situation i could get the balanced M5-HP, no?)

Am I better off just taking the samosn s-convert out since it's just one more thing that breaks the signal, or am I better off using the samson with the balanced cables, since balanced, when all things considered is better than unbalanced? Thanks for the feedback. Learning lots!
Now I remember why I have the samson s-convert. My amp does not support RCA Jack's. Just TS or XLR. I suppose I could buy a plug that converts RCA to TS and give that a whirl?
Yep 1/4" inch mic/headphone plug same thing as a TS plug (I think TS is used more in the pro audio world) and my amp is a pro audio amp. It's a behringer EP2500, it's got a lot of power and was inexpensive so that's why I bought it. It was pretty loud when I first got it due to the on board cooling fan that sounded like a jet turbine, so I did the fan mod and now it's very very quiet. I remember I bought it with the samson s-convert since it didn't accept RCAs but it did take XLR. I thought at the time that I could benefit from the balanced connections, but I've never done a direct comparison between the XLR and the TS. I just bought those plugs from Amazon, so I will let you know how the comparison turns out.
If the TS connections sound better than the XLR with the Samson (which is the hope since I will be removing additional stuff) I will be a happy camper since the unbalanced Vandersteen cross-overs are significantly cheaper if I'm not mistaken. (Honestly I would rather buy an extra sub than a cross over - at least to start off with...lol)
you do need to be careful to not fry your sub amp......grounds and hots hyper critical.....

What do you mean by this?
Also, just got my TS plugs last night, so itching to see if a simpler run from the pre-amp to the amp (although now unbalanced) improves sound quality.
I do have an open floor plan in my main listening area which is open to the kitchen/dining room, so I have to deal with blenders, running water, and screaming kids, so not conducive to critical listening (It's actually rare when I get the house to myself...grrrrr...) Hopefully I will be able to do some good tests in the next couple days, however.
so got rid of the Samson S-convert and now running strictly unbalanced with my TS connectors, I must say the biggest difference has been the decrease in background noise. On LPs the back ground hiss is barely noticeable and have to get right up to the speaker to hear it - and this is at a decent volume to boot. I did not get a proper sense of differences in sound stage since I have been unable to position speakers for prime listening at this point. But I have been very pleased with the results so far and only wish I would have done this years ago.

Because of this it will help me implement the 2wq subs in a cheaper manner (starting with the WX-2 variable cross-over to figure out the best setting for my amp, then purchasing the fixed cross-overs based off those results) - Although I do wish I could get the HP-5's, it's not realistic for me at this point financially.

Now if I can just find a good deal on a 2wq or two starting on July 1st...
(Financially this would be the optimal time)
As far as what impedance to match the cross-overs at - I noticed that my amp has an impedance of 10k ohm for balanced connections. Does this mean that I should match up the WX-2 to 10K? I have heard that people often find that they get better results if they go one step lower. so in this case I would go to 7500K? Does the WX-2 go this low?

Yeah, before the x-overs, would probably upgrade to the latest model 2 after I buy the 2 subs (my model 2Cs are pretty old at this point and will need to be put out to pasture in the next 5 years or so. I think at some point I will want the HP-5s, just trying to improve the most noticable things first.
Speaking of Vandersteen Sub woofers, looks like they got the page up for the SUB NINE. Holy smokes that looks like a beast! Check out that last pic next to the model 7s

http://vandersteen.com/products/sub-nine
hz is in the music they will reproduce it well. my understanding is the 9 is for larger rooms, more spl and tge driver is optimized for a very narrow
range like 60 hz and down, hence the choice of driver.....
So the built in subs in the model 7 still handle the upper bass and only the super low frequencies are handled by the 9s? Make sense since the super low frequencies wouldn’t need drivers that have to be as fast and can focus more on pressurizing the room
Tomic, I think it would be a good decision to add the SUB 9s. You have my blessings. ;)
Anyone know why we are not seeing the SUB THREE posted on the Vandersteen website yet? I thought that these were coming out in June. Did it get delayed?
Bob, I am only seeing the SUB 9 ~19K and the 2W for $1850 . Am I missing something?