I salvaged some great cork / sorbothane horn damping sheet goods ( from the condo soundroom buildout) , more than enough to do a triple layer on the exterior horn bodys on the Cornwall,s
i will report back if the French horns move to the correct spot!!!!
pS Cleveland in the hey days had pretty good horns, I think I can remember what they sound like!!!!!
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I just have a subscription to Rolling Stone....
ha
not really, Seattle and Cleveland before that....
but it I think you have witnessed apples and Octopus writ large, could not get two more different approaches and speaker companies and designers.... and sounds...
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My pillow needs 100 hours of run in to form and sing properly.... LaScala can do it in 20 hours with Burnin by Bob Marley....
it helps if you are also burnin.....
the punk/ Rockabilly band I mixed sound for had a stacked set for a PA
no pillow required !!!!!!
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Since the spatial info is encoded in the signal, somebody walk me thru the physics of how a big baffle improves the image ?
you do get the bounce off the panel and the back wall is 100% distortion....
but have at it, math gets extra credit
the same applies to focusing energy with a horn, ain’t nothing free.....
remember, I own horns, listen to them every day, I can assure you depth of image is not on my list of things they do well....
i will I’ll accept the homework assignment to go in and put a constrained layer damping treatment on the horn body,
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Yes, while not completely fossilized, I remember the cassette advertisement- although with a Tandberg ( off topic but a Dragon killer ) I would never use Memorex.....
ya sound anchors will rock solid couple to floor and make micrometer ( near) tilt adjustment possible....
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Well you can achieve image depth and plenty of it less than 3’ out
the 3a is not a deep speaker at all but the significant and imo crucial soundanchor stand does project back a bit. The will sound good with the anchor almost touching the wall and you will get a ton of bass. Out another 6-12” will tame that.
the physics and hearing say to minimize time smear you want something like 5’
but with 6 dB slopes and a low diffraction design you are already ahead, finally treating ( but not overtreating ) the back wall can help.
my Brother has my old 3asig, 120 wpc PS Audio amp, ARC tube pre, anticables....
they rock
but go listen, we are so blessed to have much to choose from
the Forte were in black ash - they looked lovely :-)
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heardthat
ya I was suprised also but brick & mortar continues to consolidate here in San Diego as elsewhere in the country. Stereo Design a venerable dealer went out with owners retirement and Bruce picked up Magneplaner, Mcintosh and I believe Klipsch as they exited...
have to say you should visit...almost dizzying array of loudspeakers : Klipsch, Vandersteen, Magneplaner, PSB, Goldenear, Dynaudio, Totem, Sonus Faber, .....stuff I don’t recognize in corners, etc...
i should add the Forte III driven by KT-120 quite listenable.....
i love visiting even if I dented the wallet with $250 worth of Vinyl.....ha |
homework assignment was to go fairly evaluate the series III Forte as i had not heard the latest revision......a fair criticism...
so I went and did that today at Stereo Unlimited in San Diego....
system: Rogue Cronus Magnum w KT-120, Marantz CD, BlueSound Node with DBS Audioquest silver cables, speaker cables were Nordost
listened to Steely Dan - Everything Must Go, Sol Gabetta - Prayer and a variety of Tidal streamed content ....ran the Magneplaner.7 and the Vandersteen Model 1c ( not the current 1ci )
the Forte III is much improved in the lack of glare dimension but alas remains a nice two dimensional rocker....i will say ( as one ) electric bass players will like this speaker !!!!!!
midrange is recessed, soundstage depth minimal
they will kill ya with the KT-120 !!!!!!
your results may vary.....
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On the subject of modern grill cloth and treatments
two issues
diffraction at the edges and absorption
competent ( well IMO ) engineers design a frame that is acoustically integrated with the baffle - optimizing for flat response or other variables, as stated some may voice or engineer for grille on or off.
Cloth is not a uniform absorber period
for the record, run the brother in laws loaner L-100 with the ancient grills off....
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Mrdb
actually no you hit no sore spot
and yes I do enjoy my systems, plural which include horns, large baffles ( the Cornwall are both , planar ribbons ( Apogee) and yes minimum baffle designs.... I have 7 or 8 pair of speakers....
not attacking your hearing just grounding some of the discussion in physics
enjoy
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Hopefully we are helping the OP
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Not to get tooooo far off topic but the physics of a large baffle vs minimal baffle are pretty well understood and IF you can’t hear it try this simple experiment with a 1’ x 1’ price of cardboard, cut mouth hole and have someone speak thru hole .....
roll into a cone and you get focused energy....
then compare those to speaking in free space...
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heardthat...62 degrees and marine layer in Carlsbad today....i don’t envy Shubert any at all...freaking 9 degrees....
i actually have kind of a running joke going on starting a mobile Audio business called VanderVan, where we just load up a pair of everything in a Sprinter and travel to underserved markets across the USA....and then I think, retirement is better !
IF you do fly down to San D Bruce at Stereo Unlimited is a very worthwhile visit, great store with like 7 demo rooms, lots of vinyl and many brands of speakers, except Klipsch
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yes Vandersteen works continually to upgrade and improve the product sometimes without official designation, just look at the evolution from model 2 all the way to 2ce signature II.......and those are the major changes......they have sold ( still in production) about a quarter million model 2..... just imagine a small company with an improvement obsessed owner, recording every change by serial #....
i had occasion to chat with Richard this AM, he was out in the shop finishing the build on a set of power amps, not overseeing it - doing the work.....
the big change in the 3 was to 3a sig which put in the 5a tweeter and midrange....the 5a was world class, the 3a gets you close in many dimensions....
flashlight trick is good.
heardthat.....where are you located ?
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no worries Tim, please do get in touch !!! pretty sure subs or quattro would get me evicted......
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mr_m
alas the wild veneer Treo are in hibernation ( storage ) at Vandersteen awaiting condo completion....funny how these things go as I led a team that built a 1m square foot building ahead of schedule and under budget....but getting a couple of bathrooms done and finding really flat paint eludes me...
my guess is there wil be music in a month, decent sound in two ish at which point you are very welcome to come hear what they can do with a 40 WPC NAIM Atom...No subs and do not anticipate adding them as we have neighbors below...I am investing in some fairly high end floor treatment between concrete and the engineered hardwood.
Helomech - right you are that I have zero experience with Forte III
i do have about 50 hours on a pair of 1ci, and while I would not characterize anything in the chain i use as bright, there is an Lpad on the rear panel of that and other Vandersteen speakers, it includes cut....
i think IF at all possible the OP should go hear both or even call a dealer who carries hoth for an opinion or a listen
finally, both brands hold value well if purchased right, buy both and flip whatever does not float boat.... |
yes the 3a will rock and do so with a higher duty cycle than ( for example ) a 1ci / Vandersteen sub combination as the very robust midrange takes load off the tweeter.
i have a pair of 1ci that I run with a NAIM Atom (40 wpc) and they are very sweet....
I did run the 3 with a 200 wpc Mac ( MC202) in rooms somewhat smaller than yours ( but close volumetricly close)...Something like Gabriel Plays Live....shaking the tree will move ya...
you could also get a minty new pair of 2ce sig II which offer a ton of value ) and then add subs later and really have a fantastic setup.
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Well
no hater for sure with 3 pair of Vandersteen and a pair of rebuilt and upgraded Cornwall in the garage...( but they at one time occupied space in the “ Vintage” room...
Apples and Octopus... not oranges....
and yes I had a pair of 3a-sig with Mac power....
i would say Vandersteen faults are subtractive and Klipsch faults are additive with glare, fatigue and lack of image depth critical listening deal killers for me. Wow do they rock tho! I have run them with a MAC 240 and tubes certainly help tame some of the issues.
you have enough amp for the 3a and a nice sized room. They reward meticulous setup and careful placement using the massive sound anchor stands.
the acoustic coupler provides very significant low bass and superb definition with an amp that can control the low end drivers,
have fun in your search, and Apple or ???? It’s all good food
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