And a very Merry Christmas to you too WC65Mustang! I am still enjoying my rig but . . . it is now almost as if I were trying to virtualize the new sound in my mind, through the performance limitations of my current setup. . . very bizarre indeed! Perhaps I truly have DAC (Digital Audiophilic Chorea). My friend PSCIALLI thinks it may be caused by mutated Prion particles, somehow inhaled whilst listening to the rig of already infected audiophiles. . . what a sobering thought! |
Thank you Downunder. The Act 2 does not meet my requirement for a fully balanced design. |
Keithr, TBG's breakin finding are consistent with my own. As you may have read I have purchased a Teac X-01 last October. Teac America had suggested that the unit would reach optimum performance after c.ca 80 hrs. My experience has been that the unit has lost its last traces of etched sound after 800 hrs, and in my view now close to the 1000 hrs mark it is still developing.
A linestage being a higher current device will probably take a little less, yet I fully expect to have to wait for 500 hrs till the device stabilizes. I will keep everyone posted on this thread. |
Good points JAFOx. I do also favor reviews where the number of variables are minimized. Yet, a comparison of the MBL with the ARC Ref 610 may have been a more valid one than the current with the Ref 210. They both represent a statement of the current maximum capabilities and technical prowers of these two companies. I am not terribly concerned about the almost 2X price difference. The assigned list price of the MBL gear is at least partially indicative of Euro vs US greenback exchange realities and may be highly influenced by deliberate marketing decisions to facilitating certain product perceptions, rather than purely being driven by the reality of R&D and production costs. |
Fplanner, unfortunately listening to the mighty Phi 2.0 was not in the cards this time around. Yet, several years down the road -- if I upgrade linestage once again -- I will give VAC's production once more a fair chance.
In the meantime, have you already read my Helix vs Electraglide findings? I have several posts on Shunyata Helix starting at:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1126432063&openfrom&31&4#31
This far my favorite PC for the X-01 is the Helix Anaconda Alpha. Yet Babybear has reason to believe that its VX sibling may still outperform it for this particular application. I will post my findings as soon as I have an opportunity of comparing the two versions on either his or my own X-01.
Are you considering an X-01? Make sure it is WELL broken in before you pass final verdict on it. The 80 hrs of breakin suggested by Teac America are 'for the birds'. 800 hours are more like it for RedBook alone. Mine still seems to be subtly opening up well after that mark. |
Thank you Oneobgin. . . On Ref 3 I did not need much convincing. . . I simply let my ears do the walking. I have in fact auditioned the Valhalla PC on X-01 and on the VAC Ren II. I found it to be wonderfully extended at both ends, without displeasing bloom nor undue harshness. Unfortunately, with the equipmented Babybear and I tested it, it also sounded slightly attenuated in the midrange, or in other words excessively 'slender.' Yet, as it also does display some of the 'sonic polarization' that I enjoy on the Helix family, it may be worth another listen on the ARC Ref 3, if I so have the opportunity. On the other hand, if I may be so bold to turn your suggestion around, why don't you give the Shunyata Anaconda Alpha and VX a try? I'd be interested in your own comparative findings against the mighty Valhallas. |
Oneobgin, system synergy and personal preferences always play a major role. I am wandering if perhaps you have auditioned the original Anacondas, rather than the new Helix Anacondas. The new ones sound significantly different than the old one, and I very much prefer them. Unless you have tested the Helixes in the last 45 or 60 days, I suspect you likely heard the old series. Mind you, you may still like your Valhallas better, yet Helix are worth a careful examination.
My personal findings are in the URL listed in my previous post. |
Sounds good OneObgin. Please let us all know if you get an opportunity to listen to the new Helix series. Likewise I will post any further findings on Valhalla. |
The Feb 2006 issue of TAS features a review of the ARC Ref 3 linestage and ARC Ref 210 mono blocks. The devices are compared to the much more expensive $19,000 MBL 6010 D pre- amp and $73,500 9011 monoblock amps. According to the reviewer, the MBL gear excels in detail, decay on 'sostenuto' and ultimate transient response. while the ARC products excell in size/solidity of stage, ambient realism and decay, tonal color and accuracy, tonal balance, neutral background. Remarkably good (massive authority) in bass control and transient response for tube gear.
"The MBL gear reproduces the transient slap of the duo's voices as it bounces back toward the listener off the rear wall more distinctly than the ARC does—more distinctly than anything else I've tried. But the ARC combo reproduces the way their voices trail away toward the rear wall with the same magical continuousness that it shows when reproducing the decays of notes. Both presentations are kind of amazing. And which products you will prefer will depend, to some extent, on whether you value astonishing clarity and transients or astonishing durations and tone colors.
effect is awe-inspiring. . ."
I have not heard the MBL gear so I can't comment directly on it, but I concur with Jonathan Valin assessment on the Arc Ref 3 behavior in tonal color, stage, imaging and decay. As for bass authority and transient speed, for my particular taste, the Ref 3 is just correct, and any more of these would be excessive and unwelcome.
Finally, Jonathan Valin is somewhat guilty of comparing apples and oranges: he should have used the ARC Ref 610 current flagships to compare against his MBL benchmark, not the 210. |
My Ref 3 was supposed to have shipped last week. . . but ARC has run out of its stock of black faceplates and is expecting delivery of a new batch. . . so I am still anxiously awaiting for my unit to get a face inplant, and . . . salivating in anticipation! |
Keithr, you should have seen my great aunt. She was also uber-small with a huge pill-box hat with flowers and fruits on top. . . and exactly like Mr. Valin's room, my fond memory of her is not at all relevant to the present discussion. And if you promise me to post on topic the next time around, I will spare you a complete treaty on her mole-gray elevator shoes with 5 inch stiletto heels, which almost managed -- yet not quite -- to keep her genteel nose above the surface of those immense water puddles during the equally gray rainy season in the city of Milan !
So, if you have anything topical to contribute to the discussion on the relative merits of the linestages debated in this thread, I do welcome your next post in advance. |
Apologies Keithr and Doc, I was the one who quoted the Valin article on the first place. Could it be impending senioritis?
JAFOX, yes I am biting my fingernails (and toe nails) down to the quick in anticipation!
I am surprised this thread suffered from virtual pruning. . . all technical details I divulged on Ref 3 were results of open conversations with Leonard at ARC or dealers. What info was nuked? |
Oh my God. . . it has shipped it has shipped it HAS SHIPPED! |
ARC has posted a rather amusing review of the Ref 3 from Hi-Fi on its site. See:
http://www.audioresearch.com/reviews.html
In it the author criticizes humorously the Ref 3's admittedly somewhat stern elegance, and characterizes its 'English racing green' display as: "truly, hideously, "sphincterclinchingly grotesque".
Assorted humor as well as usual positive and negative hyperbolic commentary aside, the article does contain at least one useful finding: the ref 3 is not likely to come into its own until the 350 hour mark of break in is passed, at least.
The other Ref 3 review downloadable on the same page looked like a pure waste of electrons to me. |
Doc and all, I finally received my Ref 3 this very morning. . . and it's already making music. It is connected to my X-01 source via AQ Sky XLR, and the down-range IC leg is temporarily provided by a pair of Gutwire Synchrony XLR. Ref 3 has now been playing for just 5 hrs. . . . seems already some 'whool' has been removed from the speakers; somewhat sweeter, more extended than old LS2B; harmonics ring more distinctly. Only obvious sign of its newness is the apparent lack of sound stage and a very slight hollowness. Quite good this far , if perhaps--just as predicted--not yet overwhelming, but still promising for a brand new unit. Most remarkable today is its ability to 'fill' the house with fine, detailed music even at very moderate levels of gain.
Finally a special thanks to Babybear, who not only took temporary delivery while I was travelling, but also brought it to my place and even helped me to install it this morning. Friends don't come any better than this! |
Thanks Oneobgyn, no I am not discouraged at all. . . right now I am enjoying 'mud city': Ref 3 got a lot worse approx 6 hrs into breakin. . . I know it's temporary. Sorry, the nice "English Racing green' display is lost on me. . . can't see it at all. |
Last Sunday I last turned off the system at approx the 26 hrs break in mark because I had to fly out of town for the week. A very faint amount of sound stage and ambient echo was starting to creep back into the system. I will resume Ref 3 break in late tomorrow night or on Friday. |
Thank you Brian, you a re clearly a very thoughtful dealer. If I asked my dealer to break in my Ref 3, I am positive he would have done it as well. However I prefer to perform the complete break in myself and hear my system progressively blooming. It is purely a matter of personal preference. . . a little like purchasing bulbs instead of fully bloomed tulips. I guess I am not much into instant gratification. After all, I have been in the market for a new linestage for 5 years until I found what I truly liked. Then I still waited several months before passing an order to purchase. . what's a few weeks of break in for me, compared to all of that? |
My Ref 3 has now racked up approximately 380 hours and is sounding absolutely glorious. Interestingly enough, the sound stage did not come completely into its amazing own until past 360 hours of operation, which means just about one week ago. Prior to that, the device continued to smooth up, open up and become more detailed until approx 340 hours, at which time it decided to become rather unpleasantly edgy on a numbr of redbook CDs. Almost suddenly, past 365 hrs the problem abated, the odd etch in the higher mid treble vanished in about 5 hours of operation, and the stage and imaging bloomed rapidly into a giant, deep and transparent state. Go figure! I am not sure if the unit is completely broken in as yet. I will keep everyone posted on any further changes.
In the meantime, Marc Mickelson has posted a good if slightly technically dated two-part review of the ref 3 on SoundStage. He inaccurately lists one of the tubes in the Ref 3's power supply as the 6L6GC of the first production run, instead of the current 6550C. Please see:
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/arc_reference3/
and
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/arc_reference3/index2.html
Makes me wonder if he reviewed a pre or post rolling update unit. Does anyone know? |
As the subscribers to this thread may have read my ramblings about my X-01--albeit willy nilly--and some of my favorite power chords, I thought you'd be interested in a listening comparison of the Shunyata Anaconda Helix VX and Anaconda Helix Alpha power chords on Babybear's X-01 Limited connected to his fab system. I'll see you all on "A Tale Of . . . Two Anacondas" at:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1146623467&openfrom&1&4#1
where you will have the unadulterated displeasure of following all my latest rants. Guido |
Last Monday I had the opportunity of doing a comparative audition at some length of my Ref 3 with a JRDG Capri preamp on my system. My admittedly preliminary findings are intriguing, and can be read at:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1200110667&openfrom&22&4#22
See you there! Guido |
Valid point CKoffend. . . the Capri/Ref 3 audition referred/linked above was conducted on my own system. Ref 3 has approx 2400 hrs of operation on it. The Capri was probably not completely broken in with only a few hundred hrs. Yet, preliminary observations were just slightly outside typical expectations of audiophilic orthodoxy.
Concerning auditioning on imperfectly broken in equipment in general, this is a rather weighty topic, which deserve its own dedicated and likely popular discussion thread. . . and you Ckoffend may want to start it ASAP, while leaving this one to the tedium of its admittedly narrowly scoped minutiae. |
All, my latest extremely preliminary Capri vs Ref 3 observations are at:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1205635448&openmine&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona
They are in my first post dated 03-28-2008. G. |
If anyone were interested in some of my latest a/b comparison between JRDG Capri and ARC Ref 3, see:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1200110667&openmine&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona
Guido |
Hi Grant, the relatively higher output impedance of 600Ohms of the Ref 3 compared to the more modest 130 of the Lam may partly explain the higher Lam to Pass synergy. G. |
