Pretty much the way I look at it. More gain (if it isn't needed), seems rather pointless. If it sounds better, is it because of the gain or does it actually sound better? My systems have always gotten better sounding as they got louder, at least to a point. At some point, it comes down to diminishing returns and "too loud" is not better. My speakers are a bit power hungry and I've been heavy on power since the mid 70's, never having efficient speakers to drive.
I hear about these systems that are very efficient and people are getting by with very low power class A systems. I'm sure it can be great, I've just never had such a system. Getting by is probably poor terminology as these folks are not just getting by and this is their end goal. I'd like to hear such a system sometime. I probably just never have. I live in the middle of nowhere so no nice salons around. Been a long time since I went to a high end audio place. So...........I come here.
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To Jonwolfpell
Which AR preamp did you have? 100 years ago. You must be pretty old. :)
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Bimmerlover
Thanks. AR gets a lot of attention. There seems to be a group who does not like it and another that does. Always the way, I guess. I think much of it has to be synergy with other components. Lots of things in the mix. For a vinyl nut like me, even more. Cartridge, stylus, SUT when needed, separate phono preamp, separate preamp, tubes (tremendous variety there alone) amps, cables and wiring, speakers. That's a load of crap to "synergize".
I appreciate the reply. There is a ref5 currently available at around 5k. I'd just hate to drop 5k and find out that I'm in the "I don't care for AR" camp. There are a couple lower models too, LS17 and another but I don't know much about them. Anyway, thanks very much. Always like to hear other's experiences, likes, dislikes and why they feel the way they do.
Bill
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Harpo75
Was hoping to spend 2k to 3k or so, a little more if needed. Many used pres out there in this range, a lot of them were 5k to 10k new. At some point, age becomes an issue. Not sure when that is.
I appreciate as much detail as I can get. I appreciate when I can listen and feel the instruments or singer in front of me. I like when the sounds are out in space. My favorite cartridge is a very low output MC, Fidelity Research FR1, Mk III F. It has amazing detail, clear highs and very deep bass. It reproduces brass and strings as well as I've ever heard. The AR 9's have tremendous bass, solid mids and decent (better than average) highs. They do classical music the best but I listen to a variety of things, nearly anything but jazz. Closest to jazz for me is Steely Dan or Mannheim Steamroller. Both made some amazing recordings. Virtually every tube or equipment test of any kind for me will involve some Fresh Aire recording on vinyl. Some of the best vinyl recordings ever made in my opinion. Crystal Clear direct to disk are my best classical recordings as well as a few other direct to disks that I have.
I am always very critical of recording quality, at least how my system does it and how my ears perceive it. About 15 years ago, I sat down with someone who was a retired NASA engineer and re-introduced him to some vinyl. He said he had not listened to a record in 20 years, having switched to CD's. He had AR 3's at home, himself. He was blown away by what he heard. He said it was like being there. I said, "that's the whole idea". This is a guy who used to be married to a concert pianist. He had heard a lot of live music in his day. We listened to several of my best classical LP's, most if not all, were D2D, Telarc and Crystal Clear. Might have been one or two that were not but if so, were just great anaolog examples. Anyway, fun day and a very fond memory.
Currently using another LOMC, Sumiko Talisman S. A very nice cartridge in it's own right but the FR is better, to my ears. I also have several MM's that I listen to now and then, Shure V15III, Shure V15IV, Denon DL109R, Nagatron 185E. I enjoy all of them but have my favorites. All my stuff is old. At some point, some things need to be replaced or repaired. Who knows what's next? At this point, it is the preamp. Thanks very much for all the advice.
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JerryCarlsbad2
Do you listen to vinyl at all? Just curious what your system consists of. I don't think a DAC works for me but I don't know either. I'm kind of stuck in the 20th century.
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jonwolfpell
Yes, I sort of guessed it was a figure of speech. :) Thanks for narrowing it down though. Thangs likely changed a lot for AR from the 80's to now. I just don't really get the opportunity to hear anything other than my own system. It's likely 3 to 4 hours in any direction for me to find a high end store..........or even a store that sells any decent audio equipment. I have to trust what I read here and elsewhere. When something gets a lot of good revues (not paid revues), it gets my attention. The more good that I hear about it, the more I become interested in something.
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decooney
See my above response. There really is nowhere anywhere near me to have a listen. I am 3 hours plus from St Louis, Kansas City, midway between the two. I retired here from IL 12 years ago. Lots of choices back there but it is now 6 hours away. Des Moines is 4 plus hours, might be something there. Quincy IL is an hour or so, could be something there? Don't know. I'm getting old (72), don't relish driving so much anymore.
I do have the opportunity to buy from places like Music Direct, The Music Room and probably others where the opportunity to listen to something and return if I don't like it, is a possibility. I did this once a few years ago with a phono preamp. I think it was Musical Surroundings, no idea what model. I can't even be sure it was Musical Surroundings but I think so. Was a store demo, can't remember if it was 1200 bucks, down from 1600 or if it was 1600 down from 2k, just don't remember for sure. I was trying to see if I could go back to all SS and it didn't fit my needs at all. Maybe I didn't give it a fair shake, didn't have something set right but I tried everything with it and just found that all the detail I had with the Cary, including bass extension, high frequency response and just plain overall "detail", was lost. I sent it back.
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Hey jonwolfpell
What made you sell the Calypso?
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decooney
Thanks again. I think maybe the phono pre that I tried from MD, was Musical Fidelity, not Musical Surroundings but I'm not 100% certain. Whatever it was, it did not do it for me and I decided to stay with the Cary PH301. I just thought that old tubes were getting scarce and pricey and maybe I'd run out of them one day. I have not and all is well. I at least am encouraged by the fact that there seems to be some new tubes that people use "and like". For the PH301, I probably have plenty of vintage tubes to last the rest of my life.
I'm sure I'd be happy with an SLP 98 if it had the upgrades, not sure without them. Used ones do show up from time to time that have all the latest upgrades. I did talk with Cary some time ago about building me a new one and it may still be an option, just not sure for how long.
There are a couple others up for consideration as well. There is an Aesthetix Calypso Signature, Backert Labs Rhumba 3.1 and several different ARC models as well as McIntosh. From what I read and the features, the Calypso might be the best fit for me. I'm not ruling any of these out.
Bill
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I have considered the Modwright stuff but not as much. Just found less about it and have not read as much as some of the others. I'm sure there are quite a few that would make me very happy. The list of things to study up on, never ends.
The MF was easily stomped by the old Cary phono stage that I have so it was an easy decision to stay with it.
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Thanks to all who coached me here.
I took the plunge and bought the Aesthetix Calypso, Signature edition. Used unit from TMR, very well priced. I'm guessing I'm going to love it. Tube rolling not as simple as with a Cary but I'll likely find a combination that I like and stick with it. It comes with two Mullard CV4004 (same as 12ax7?) and two CV2493. The latter, I know nothing about. If CV4004 is same as AX7, I have a lot of choices in my own tube collection.
I've been watching and studying Cary SLP98 preamps for about a year. I understand nearly everything about them and the people at Cary told me that my Cary PH301 (not 302), is a much better phono pre than what they put into the SLP 98P. I mostly considered the 98L for that reason. If a really nice 98P had come along, I may have picked it up and would just have that many more options to run multiple turntables or at least leave two or three of them hooked up. I have at least half a dozen turntables and multiple cartridges. It's all old so a problem with one, just pull up another and so on. From Lenco, AR, Sansui, Micro Seiki, VPI, I think that's about it. I often think it would be nice if I could have 3 of them wired into the system and avoid cartridge swaps or moving turntables etc.
Thanks again to all who guided me through this process. I'll post again when I have the Calypso in the system to let you know what I think of it.
How many noticed that I spelled review as revue? Old age is so much fun. I find my spelling really has suffered over the last few years. Weird. I can still hear pretty well and still love my music. Many thanks, guys.
Bill
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There has been a red one listed for quite a long time. I've been skeptical about it. I don't know why, just "feels weird". See above, I bought the Calypso.
In my search, mostly watching what TMR had, they sold the Cary SLP98, an Aesthetix Calypso, first verseion, a Backert Rhumba and others that I had been watching. They move some gear. Thanks,
Bill
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atmasphere
Thanks very much for that. My Cary is getting to that age, so are my amps. Next system upgrades may be the amps. I may just have them rebuilt, which would put them back in shape for another 30 years or so. I have zero complaints about them. If I ever did think about replacing them, it would likely be something that is class A, which can get into stilly money. Not likely to happen, since I can have mine rebuilt for a reasonable amount. I can do them one at a time, back down to running one at a time until both were done.
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awise
Thanks for this. A buddy of mine had Siemens tubes in his CJ preamp. They did a very nice job . I don't think I have any Siemens in my collection but I might. I bought large lots of tubes many years ago. I look through groups of them every now and then to try and figure out why I did but I do find a good one here and there that I can use. I also bought a whole sales kit of NOS Sylvania tubes. I don't remember what all is in it but it was cheap and it was a lot of tubes. I also used to find NOS Sylvania Gold Pin (triple mica) 5751's for $30 or so, used ones for around $15 to $18. I bought all I could find at those prices and I'm glad I did. That was over 20 years ago and I still have them all. Anyway, thanks for the comments. Much appreciated.
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Russ69
What AR's did you have? Just wondering. I read mostly favorable comments on AR, especially from the 5 and 6 series. Funny how this stuff goes. I think a lot of people have upgraditis. I'm not really one of them.
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Thanks guys
I think about the Aesthetix and tube rolling. Someone made a case that the cover was held by velcro, can't remember who. Have to settle on what I like at some point, not such an easy swap out. Cary's are nice for that reason but they also sound very damn good.
My PH301 has external power supply and slave cable. It seems that there is a lot to be said for such things. The 05 has external PS that is different, as large as the preamp (case anyway). Don't find many negative comments about any of these components that have been discussed. Thanks for all. Fun stuff.
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Many nods for CJ. I understand. Any CJ I've ever heard was excellent. I chose the Calypso Signature and from what everyone says, I don't think I will be disappointed. I'll be sure to post when I have it in the system.
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Tomic
Thanks for that. Have to see what I think of what is in it when it arrives and go from there. Have to go through my tube lots and see if there are any ecc88's/6922's of any merit. Not likely to find the favorites but I may have some. I have loads of 12AX7 variants.
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harpo
Awesome, thanks. I'm always amazed at the people I get to talk to on these sites. Working with, knowing the designers and builders. For a poor dumb farm boy who retired from a firefighter career, I'm pretty awed by all of this. I just supply the ears, the music source and a little cash. You guys are a wealth of knowledge and I always appreciate it very much. I am certain that I will love the Calypso. Nothing I've heard or read leads me to think otherwise.
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To all
Had some issues with the Calypso Signature so it went back. Found a loose RCA output, LED's going dim and channel loss. Kind of strange but TMR thought it best to return it and so did I. I thought it did very well for CD listening but did not get to utilize it fully for vinyl since I was having other issues with other gear. Picked up an LP12 since and now waiting for a very pristine looking SLP 98P F1 with multiple upgrades in Jaguar red. Very much looking forward to hearing it in the system. Many thanks to all.
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@decooney
Hey, I just figured out how to do a proper response.. Genius. :)
Strange coincidence about these jaguar reds, 3 known in short order here. The other one I saw was not F1 and was 98L. I think it is still for sale. Just found the one that I did after returning the Calypso, not expecting to find one. There were at least 2 or 3, red, blue and black. The red to me is the sharpest and also seemed the best fit for me.
Thanks for this. Will be looking under the hood by about Wed as this ships tomorrow,
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