2. digital
  3. 159217-149317

USB sucks

USB really isn‘t the right connection between DAC and Server: depending on cables used, you get very different sound quality if the server manages to recognise the DAC at all. Some time ago I replaced my highly tuned Mac Mini (by now-defunct Mach2mini, running Puremusic via USB) with an Innuos Zenith Mk3. For starters I couldn‘t get the DAC (Antelope Zodiac Gold) and server to recognise each other, transmission from the server under USB2.0 wasn‘t possible because the server is Linux based (mind, both alledgedly support the USB2.0 standard) and when I finally got them to talk to each other (by using Artisansilvercables (pure silver) the sound quality was ho-hum. While I understand the conceptual attraction to have the master clock near the converter under asynchronous USB, the connection‘s vagaries (need for exact 90 Ohms impedance, proneness to IFR interference, need to properly shield the 5v power line, short cable runs) makes one wonder, why one wouldn‘t do better to update I2S or S/PDIF or at the higher end use AES/EBU. After more than 20 years of digital playback, the wide variety of outcomes from minor changes seems unacceptable.

Since then and after a lot of playing around I have replaced the silver cables by Uptone USPCB rigid connectors, inserted an Intona Isolator 2.0 and Schiit EITR converting USB to S/PDIF. Connection to the DAC is via Acoustic Revive DSIX powered by a Kingrex LPS.

The amount of back and forth to make all this work is mindboggling, depending on choice of USB cables (with and without separate 5V connection, short, thick and God-knows what else) is hard to believe for something called a standard interface and the differences in sound quality make any review of USB products arbitrary verging on meaningless.

Obviously S/PDIF gives you no native PCM or DSD but, hey, most recordings still are redbook, anyway.
Conversely it is plug and play although quality of the cable still matters but finally it got me the sound quality I was looking for. It may not be the future but nor should USB, given all the shortcomings. Why is the industry promoting a standard that clearly isn‘t fit for purpose?

Finally, I invite the Bits-are-bits naysayers to go on a similar journey, it just might prove to be educational.
antigrunge2
fastfreight
786 posts
 
Is there really an advantage to not using a combined Streamer / DAC?
I have Roon Nucleus + (yes expensive but flawless in operation, don't ever even need to look at it, located by modem in my office) and two DACs, Auralic VEGA 2 and MOLA MOLA Tambaqui, both of course ROON endpoints.  The Nucleus + has installed internal hard drive so there also is no separate network attached storage to fool with. This did replace my aging Mac Mini which gave me fits when it needed rebooted or whatever.  Both DACs have network bridges and are trouble free.  NO USB cables, no compatibility issues, less boxes.  Both are hard wired vs wifi.  I did need to update my switch and some ethernet cables, but this would benefit anyone.  I am into audio, not computers.  Ken
herman
2,253 posts
 
Thanks for the info Furzy, looks interesting, I may try it to compare to USB as the Antelope has spdif and optical inputs. However, even though I doubt it would be significant, those inputs are limited to 192 and 96K respectively whereas I can feed it up to 384k upsampled in Roon from USB.

On the other hand, a Raspberry Pi with digital card will do the ethernet to spdif for about $100

wonder if Roon would see the Rednet as an audio device like it does a Pi?
furzy_cat
7 posts
 
Interesting, they're all worth a try if you can do so. There is actually a Dante device at least near the same price as the Raspberry Pi, the Audinate AVIO Dante 2x2 AES3/EBU Adapter. I think it only goes to 96K though.
I have run Spotify through the Rednet 3, but couldn't listen to the loss in sound quality compared to uncompressed music.
guyboisvert
42 posts
 
@rixthetrix  Wow, a "technician" that doesn't know about detection level, encoding, checksumming and buffering...  You are mixing things and ethernet category of cables have nothing to do with USB cables...
Obviously, you don't know about high-speed differential pairs, linear feedback shift register,  8b/10b encoding, etc etc etc.

And about transmission of digital signal being "analog", that's just plain talking for nothing... Of course, every electrical signal could be described as" analog" but that's not the point... We're talking digital communication and encoding, bit detection, etc...  In a computer, this is the same principle, be it in gigahertz range...
"There’s nothing in the cables passing little ones and zeros across the cable."  Oh and what is digital transport then?  And ethernet?  And transmission lines in a computer?  Incredible...

And the top of the top:" excuse my rant, I am just trying to ensure people don't get misinformed and miss out on relatively cheap solutions that will significantly increase performance."  Wow...

That's exactly what you do...  I can tell you didn't pass any degree, you should study a bit before trying to look that you know something, you just don't... 
Go get a good engineering book and read before throwing crap like you did... if you're up to understand something...  Here is a free MIT book, try to read and understand it...
http://www.mit.edu/~6.450/handouts/6.450book.pdf
guyboisvert
42 posts
 
@papagiorgo Another non tech that don’t understand and speak out BS... "USB does carry and introduce a noticeable amount of noise into the DAC, even with high-quality USB cables." The, you have a badly designed USB DAC... Throw it to trash, it is where it belongs...

@jaytor Your point is exactly what everybody should understand here!

@CDD same as papagiordo, throw you trash DAC where it belongs...
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