USB sucks


USB really isn‘t the right connection between DAC and Server: depending on cables used, you get very different sound quality if the server manages to recognise the DAC at all. Some time ago I replaced my highly tuned Mac Mini (by now-defunct Mach2mini, running Puremusic via USB) with an Innuos Zenith Mk3. For starters I couldn‘t get the DAC (Antelope Zodiac Gold) and server to recognise each other, transmission from the server under USB2.0 wasn‘t possible because the server is Linux based (mind, both alledgedly support the USB2.0 standard) and when I finally got them to talk to each other (by using Artisansilvercables (pure silver) the sound quality was ho-hum. While I understand the conceptual attraction to have the master clock near the converter under asynchronous USB, the connection‘s vagaries (need for exact 90 Ohms impedance, proneness to IFR interference, need to properly shield the 5v power line, short cable runs) makes one wonder, why one wouldn‘t do better to update I2S or S/PDIF or at the higher end use AES/EBU. After more than 20 years of digital playback, the wide variety of outcomes from minor changes seems unacceptable.

Since then and after a lot of playing around I have replaced the silver cables by Uptone USPCB rigid connectors, inserted an Intona Isolator 2.0 and Schiit EITR converting USB to S/PDIF. Connection to the DAC is via Acoustic Revive DSIX powered by a Kingrex LPS.

The amount of back and forth to make all this work is mindboggling, depending on choice of USB cables (with and without separate 5V connection, short, thick and God-knows what else) is hard to believe for something called a standard interface and the differences in sound quality make any review of USB products arbitrary verging on meaningless.

Obviously S/PDIF gives you no native PCM or DSD but, hey, most recordings still are redbook, anyway.
Conversely it is plug and play although quality of the cable still matters but finally it got me the sound quality I was looking for. It may not be the future but nor should USB, given all the shortcomings. Why is the industry promoting a standard that clearly isn‘t fit for purpose?

Finally, I invite the Bits-are-bits naysayers to go on a similar journey, it just might prove to be educational.
antigrunge2

Showing 8 responses by guyboisvert

@sgreg1  "none of the noise people complain about from usb"
HA HA HA! Noise from a digital transport, that's the most stupid thing i read since a long time!!!  You can transfer terabytes of data with USB WITHOUT ANY ERRORS using a simple cheap USB cable...  That tells it all!

And when you send no data, you simply hear silence!  Noise has nothing to do with that!!!  I'll repeat again, and repeat after me:  USB is a simple serial digital transport with checksumming and buffering!
@djones51  An USB DAC uses async digital transport with buffering.  Then, it uses its own accurate internal clock generator to convert the digital data to analog.

So USB clock is not related to quality of sound whatsoever, nor cabling or connectors, etc!  Forget about "jitter", reclocking or any other plain stupidity...  So forget about stupid "audio grade" USB, put your money elsewhere...
@antigrunge2 you don't seem to understand how USB works (like a charm by the way) and digital transport in general...
The cables DO NOTHING (unless completely broken!), it's just low speed digital transport with checksumming.  The DAC must run in async mode (most of them do now) and use an input buffer.  Nothing very special here, an easy technology mastered since a long time...

So you may have a badly USB implemented DAC... or you are a reseller that wants to rip people....
I have a Rega USB DAC and it works like a charm.  My friend has an Ayre QB-9, works very well too.  Mine is hooked to a raspberry pi (Raspbian + Volumio), and i sometimes use my Lenovo laptop too (Ubuntu 20.04 + mpd): It works with both flawlessly and it is recognized right out of the box.  My friend's QB9 is hooked to an old Intel Atom Mini-ITX board who runs Debian (mpd), again works flawlessly.  I could go on and on like that for every friends i have that use USB DAC...

I have a really goog laugh when i see people throwing money to trash by buying expensive USB cables!  Better put your money elsewhere...
@herman "Transmitting audio data in realtime is not the same as transferring TeraBytes of data files. You should look into it before making such statements."

Ok go ahead and explain me how it is different!! YOU should study about async digital communication, encoding and buffering... It’s obvious that you just plain don’t know...
@papagiorgo Another non tech that don’t understand and speak out BS... "USB does carry and introduce a noticeable amount of noise into the DAC, even with high-quality USB cables." The, you have a badly designed USB DAC... Throw it to trash, it is where it belongs...

@jaytor Your point is exactly what everybody should understand here!

@CDD same as papagiordo, throw you trash DAC where it belongs...
@rixthetrix  Wow, a "technician" that doesn't know about detection level, encoding, checksumming and buffering...  You are mixing things and ethernet category of cables have nothing to do with USB cables...
Obviously, you don't know about high-speed differential pairs, linear feedback shift register,  8b/10b encoding, etc etc etc.

And about transmission of digital signal being "analog", that's just plain talking for nothing... Of course, every electrical signal could be described as" analog" but that's not the point... We're talking digital communication and encoding, bit detection, etc...  In a computer, this is the same principle, be it in gigahertz range...
"There’s nothing in the cables passing little ones and zeros across the cable."  Oh and what is digital transport then?  And ethernet?  And transmission lines in a computer?  Incredible...

And the top of the top:" excuse my rant, I am just trying to ensure people don't get misinformed and miss out on relatively cheap solutions that will significantly increase performance."  Wow...

That's exactly what you do...  I can tell you didn't pass any degree, you should study a bit before trying to look that you know something, you just don't... 
Go get a good engineering book and read before throwing crap like you did... if you're up to understand something...  Here is a free MIT book, try to read and understand it...
http://www.mit.edu/~6.450/handouts/6.450book.pdf
@herman  As a programmer and electronic interface design engineer, you're not "locked" into using isochronous mode: You have bandwidth and buffers so if i can transfer 500 MBps+ (using SATA SSD = 4 Gbps+) of data without error (well, if there are errors, they are corrected), it should't be a problem to playback music!

The USB spec has a enough protocol sophistication to handle many things.  Of course, computer setup, minimal cabling care (lenght, compliance, etc) and other evidences must be met.

Want to test cables for performance?

https://www.passmark.com/downloads/USB3LoopbackPlugUsersGuide.pdf
It's about 100$ so for those who want to spend big money on cables, that shouldn't be a problem.
On the Linux platform, you can hook to the kernel and you have a rich set entry points / data to monitor USB for performance and errors.  Windows / Mac should have a couple of tools too (i'm a Linux user, so not sure about those 2).  So imagine testing a USB cable with NVMe to USB adaptor and pushing gigabits of data through it.  If your cable is not good, it'll show.

cp /dev/nvme0n1 /dev/null

(copy from external NVMe USB drive to NULL = Max Speed of the source).  Of course it's bulk mode!


As for transfer mode, here is a user question and a response from usb.org:

https://thepenguin.eu/2018-01-19-audiophile-usb-cables/

USB transmits information digitally. Bits are either received correctly or not received. What a bit looks like on the wire has no effect on quality if the bit is received correctly. If a bit is not receive correctly, error checking in USB protocols will flag the error in data transmission. Jitter is not a cable problem. Jitter is a transceiver (PHY) issue on the devices. Can bits get scrambled within a cable assembly on occasion? Yes, primarily due to EMI but this is highly unlikely -- more on that later. Is occasional data scrambling a problem for audio/video?
Maybe. The answer depends on the hardware receiving/rendering the data. USB supports isochronous transport which is a timely delivery of data. The isochronous transport has guaranteed bandwidth on USB. Isochronous protocol, however, does not support error recovery. In other words, if data is flagged as an error by the receiver, there will be no attempt at data retransmission.
So if the receiver is using the isochronous protocol, then there can be errors in data. Most webcams use the isochronous transport. High-end audio/video equipment that does not mandate real-time delivery of data should not use the isochronous transport because accurate data delivery is not guaranteed.
USB also supports bulk transport. The Bulk transport shares bandwidth and timely delivery is not guaranteed. Bulk protocol does have error recovery and errors in data will be retried. If the receiver uses the bulk USB protocol, then there will be no errors in the data.
This is why USB mass storage devices always use the Bulk transport. Most USB audio/video devices use the bulk transport because real-time delivery of the data is not necessary. Bulk audio/video devices will buffer data before rendering it.
I can think of only two situations where the audio/video will be disturbed when rendered: 1) If the host is busy performing IO to other USB devices, or 2) There are errors in data transmission where continual retries cause buffer under-run to occur.
The second point could be cable related -- it could also be poor hardware design of the host or peripheral as well. The USB Bulk transport works very nicely for audio and video because data is accurately delivered. Now onto cable quality. A cheap USB cable will work perfectly fine in the vast majority of home/office environments. All USB certified cables use certified connectors and are shielded, have minimal skew on the data lines, and meet criteria regarding impedance and voltage drop. If the environment is extremely noisy with EMI, then a better shielded cable may be necessary. Usually relocating the cable or power strips will suffice to mitigate EMI. Personally, I would never recommend anyone buy an expensive USB cable unless they are experiencing problems not related to their hardware and there exists definitive suspicions of environmental interference.
I do always recommend that the cable purchased be USB certified which provides assurance that the product is properly designed for USB. Using USB certified audio/video equipment also assures that the USB signal quality and other packet parameters of the transceiver meets specifications. Of course, all of the above is premised upon properly designed and functioning hardware. Regards, Mark Paxson USB-IF Compliance Administrator TechAdmin@usb.org