Upscale Audio and Primaluna

Well, a lot of comments. Here are the truths about me and my business. I have never wanted to tell people what tube to buy because it is not possible,and people used to grind on me to say SOMETHING and get pissed if I didn’t. Granted this would be the same customer that would want to return it because "You told me to buy it". You audiophiles are here because you’re not all there (grin). Try spending an hour on a $30 tube sale when you are up to your ass. You think it’s easy? Open a tube business.

If any salesperson working for me talks crap about your system I want to know who it is because I’ll fire them. I never hear that from people, most likely because they are on hourly wage and getting paid the same whether it’s selling $100k speakers or helping some old dude get his streamer working. However today people look to get offended sometimes.

We have technical trainings all the time. My sales staff is comprised of people that have upwards of 35 years of experience, many that worked at high levels for manufacturers, a cartridge designer, a full-on bench tech, tube expert, and tweek doing customers support. I’m gathering the best people and paying them well, but never incentifying bad behavior. I don’t get to help customers but instead, teach and make employees experts.

Yes, the company is on a big trajectory. I was going to retire at 55, and I’m 63 now. I have employees that have been here for close to 25 years, and what am I going to do with them? They gave their lives to me. I owe them. Jared’s parents tell me every Christmas how grateful they are that I employ their son. It’s my privilege. I’ll hopefully create something that is so great, with management much smarter than me, and a company that is well-respected and when I croak it will continue and do good things and the core team will be happy they are here. I have no kids. They are my kids.

Since 2003 PrimaLuna has been on fire, experiencing double-digit growth even during the recession. It has zero to do with any other brand, it is made in the best factory in the world, where there were two Japanese brands being manufactured but labeled "made in Japan". There’s a major US brand that makes nothing,but assembles Chinese pre-made kits, and calls them "Made in USA" And they are a better product because of it, sadly. And a certain Austrian brand is mostly Chinese. PrimaLuna has always been transparent, including the most important part: Telling you what’s in the box.

We would not be growing like this if we weren’t doing the right thing. We have told many people don’t buy a PrimaLuna if it’s not right for them. It’s been said here by another member. I just did that this week with a guy who inherited DQ10’s, plays it loud, and has a huge room. He REALLY wants one because his other friend has one and loves it so much.

All my employees love PL. For a reason. I’ll say this and I am happy to prove it: PrimaLuna IS top-shelf in the tube world, and you are welcome to trot down any amp of similar power and we’ll do a level-matched blind A/B. Name a brand. I think VAC is great stuff. I’ve done it already. All you nervous nellies would be surprised how close any good tube amps sound to each other level-matched.

All PrimaLuna was engineered by the former Chief Engineer at Goldmund.in Switzerland. The team has expanded with new projects. Our new Hybrid had the best guys in Europe working on it, and it’s the shit. Parts you would see in a D’Agostino, but without the meters. And price tag.

Our auto-bias design is state of the art. Period. Ayon should show a picture of their auto-bias board. I’ll bet it’s great, but show it. We do. Don’t take anyone’s word for anything. Not even me. I have a video coming showing the Raven Audio "fully auto bias" design. You won’t believe this one.

Anyway, I’ll probably regret crawling out of my hole to post this. I’ll crawl back in now. Whatever you folks get I hope you love it. Hope you are having fun.

 

 

I forgot to say Thank You to our customers who chimed in here and to give thanks for allowing me to work in an industry I've loved since I was 10 years old when I hacked my mom's console stereo with box speakers.

Some people that are hobbyists that open stores ruin the hobby because retail is difficult, but that never happened to me. 

I don’t go to forums and almost never post. But I feel a need to clarify some things that are pervasive falsehoods.

First off, we sell vintage tubes to anyone except out of the country and guitar amps. There was a time where I wanted to sell new old stock cheaper but only if you bought your gear from us, and that really pissed off a lot of people, except the customer that bought gear here.   We stopped that, raised the prices to market price and let her rip.  

@Jumia Please send your name, telephone number and email to Info@upscaleaudio.com  Tell us who you dealt with. Even if you don’t know a name we have robust records of every customer interaction no matter how they come into our company. I will have the store manager call you. I want to know the exact words that were used.

None of my salespeople are on commission. I learned that when I worked at Rogersound Labs, the best audio store that ever existed. We don’t review what brands they sell, what categories, or if they try to “load you up” on accessories or high-profit stuff when they buy a system.  

I will admit one of my salespeople is a PrimaLuna freak, but it comes from his love for his own system and he should remember that doesn’t make it right for everyone. None of my salespeople talk down systems if they want to have a job here. Besides, they are paid an hourly wage. There’s no incentive. Some of them sell 30% as much as others, but I know they are doing other things like troubleshooting and customer service. 

I don’t worry about that because they are all amazing in their own ways. Kat is a classically trained musician, acoustics expert, and degreed Recording Engineer. Ash is not just an experienced audiophile with years of managing a store, he’s a degreed Electrical Engineer. Renee was regional sales manager for Dynaudio, Sean was sales trainer for MartinLogan. Josh worked as tech support for Tubestore. I could go on and on. I hire the best I can and pay them better.  I'm still understaffed and need more industry experts...not slick rick salespeople. 

The only thing I monitor is the percentage of returns. If that number is too high, then two things may be happening.   A: They are not asking enough questions to get it right or B: They are allowing sales to occur that should never leave our store. People want to buy the wrong stuff all the time, and we have to be brave enough to tell them it’s a waste of their time and money. I don’t need the business if we are doing them a disservice.  

I guess we’re doing something right since we’ve grown double digits every year to become one of the largest dealers in the U.S.   Do we make mistakes? Sure. When you are processing 400 orders a week even 1% is too high.   Every customer gets sent a survey, and we have 4.87 stars with 9877 reviews.

I do not own any portion of PrimaLuna, but I have been heavily involved since the beginning. Herman van den Dungen is the owner, and we started doing business together in 1999 with the Ah! Tjoeb CD player he built. That player was a true giant killer and we sold thousands of them. Herman distributes some of the biggest names in audio into the Benelux area. In a 2000 visit, he showed me a stack of broken amps from one of the most prestigious names out there and complained how they were not only overpriced but broke over and over. We are kindred spirits and agree that high-end audio has gone off the rails with companies being bought by Private Equity groups that don’t give a sh*t about audio looking to make a buck by raising prices and lower cost of goods sold. You don’t need to be an engineer to see this. Look at the most expensive “reference” products from 20 years ago, adjust for inflation, and look at what they actually sell for now.  

Herman is well-connected in Europe, and hired the best engineers, including the former Chief Engineer from Goldmund Switzerland, and he imports the finest parts into the best factory in the world.   This isn’t just a business. It’s a cause. We both work on a reasonable but lower margin but get them into the hands of more grateful customers. And again the proof is in the explosive growth and the resale value of PrimaLuna. Recently our original products the ProLogue One and Two have become “collectible” sometimes selling for more than retail on Ebay. It’s one thing to be a collectible 40 years later. It’s another to do it 10-12 years later.  

Someone mentioned a comparative video I did on how a competitor’s preamp is built vs a PrimaLuna. I took that down some time ago as I don’t want anyone going out of business. But why you would not want to know facts about parts is baffling.   You want to buy an 11 pound preamp for $5k? That’s up to you. But others are grateful to be told how things work and spend money on parts and engineering. Not stories. I would not buy a preamp without looking inside using Google Images and checking the weight.

It was also mentioned about a PrimaLuna EVO 400 being compared to a REF 6 yada yada yada. I’ve been doing this for a living for 45 years and have the hearing of a 12-year-old. I could never make that comparison unless it was an instant A/B and level-matched within .5dB.   That’s the first training exercise I do with new employees to teach them about aural memory.  

Once you get to a certain level of sound quality the differences are so small they are hard to discern. I am most happy to invite a group of at least six of you together (to make it worthwhile) to come to my store with any EXPENSIVE tube amp, preamp, or integrated, and we’ll do a double-blind LEVEL MATCHED instant comparison. I did just that for some members of the audio society and the results were shocking to some of them.

I’m not saying don’t spend more...if you have the jack, go do it. But don’t tell some dude with fewer resources he can’t own a reference system for less. I just spoke to probably the most-read reviewer in all the magazines and he told me in no uncertain terms the EVO 400 is the best preamp he’s ever had in his system. Period. And his best friend who is an analog guru owns one and feels the same way. Look what Steve Guttenberg said on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3yMJQ43ZgE  about the EVO 100. He gets it.

It’s fine when we sell big-ticket stuff but I get a bigger thrill selling a newbie a $3k PrimaLuna integrated and seeing the lights come on, or having an employee tell me this is the best job they’ve ever had. I was going to retire at 59.  I don't need to work.  But I love HiFi and I have people working here since the beginning.   I owe them a career that pays well. My wife and I have no kids. Now it’s about giving back to my employees, and their families.

Way too many words but I’d rather not have to post any further.  

@fsonicsmith Thank you for your kind words and for reading my business right. I like selling big-ticket items too of course but spent my teenage years with my nose pressed up against the glass windows of stereo stores longing to get the best I could with not a lot of money. I get that.

The Ah! Tjoeb was a $549 bargain made in Holland. It weighed what it should. It was a life-changing product for me after making so many people happy.

The Chinook SE MKII with upgraded NOS tubes is $2799, and weighs as much or more than $5k preamps I can mention, and almost as much as a popular $9k preamp. Why then isn’t the Chinook $5k? Because EveAnna Manley said so. The prices charged by high-end audio manufacturers are sometimes arbitrary. If anyone wants a certain name and is willing to pay it that’s cool with me. I just tell it like it is.

The majority of companies do a great job with owners that really care. But no other industry would swallow the B.S. that gets sold here. There are more former nuclear submarine engineers with top-secret clearance working in audio than any other business. My Vice President Craig actually has that clearance and we laugh about coming out with some magic box. I’ve been asked to lend my name to projects that would be money-makers but were obvious snake oil so I declined. I would love to write a book. In 45 years in this industry, I’ve seen it all.

I have a little more insight into how stuff is made than most because I have samples traded in all the time. I love audio and understanding how things work. I take products apart and look up part numbers and their costs with my service tech who is also a pro audio circuit designer. Coming from pro audio he just shakes his head and laughs at some of the stuff we see. It would never fly in that business. Musicians are or often broke...and cheap.

I see "new upgraded" models with higher price tags using cheaper volume chips. I see an amp with two driver tubes and two gain tubes being replaced by a "new upgraded" model with a  higher price tag also with cheaper chips plus the elimination of driver tubes that get replaced with an FET. Or companies that tell you their cathode bias amp is auto bias. One of them actually changed their website description to what is technically correct after I pointed out to them it was misleading. Then months later, they changed it back to auto-bias.

Regardless, the vast majority of companies do a great job with wonderful owners that care about making a great product.

I’m tasked with explaining how the brands that I represent are made and work. Whether we retail or import/distribute them.

In every PrimaLuna video we produce, I talk about parts and engineering. Weight is a factor that I emphasize more with preamps because they can be a profit center for manufacturers. Much like soft drinks to a restaurant. As you said, parts quality is more important, which is why I show them and describe them in detail. I’m very proud of that. You guys have no idea what a freak Herman is about component selection. Part for part, I can compare PL to any brand at its price or double its price.

The late great Art Dudley said it best: "I’ve never seen a better-built amp. ... Someone made this as if it mattered."

To your point on the PrimaLuna preamp sound, second harmonics are certainly the way to go, which is why people (including me) love tubes.

But the real glory comes from the Holy Trinity for tube preamp design: Dual-mono, tube rectification, point-to-point wiring.

@arafiq Al my sales staff are different.  One customer might feel this salesperson is too touchy-feely and wants to get to the point, and another wants a new friend.  Everyone's different, whether customer or staff. 

If you meet one that you like, ask for them.  Nobody gets butt hurt that you bought from another salesperson because they don't get paid for selling it to you. We're implementing new software systems next month that will make it easier than ever for you to have a history with us so we know where your heads at and get right to your favorite person.  If that person is out, anyone can step in and look at your audio "medical records"

As to being too busy, yes that was true, especially during Covid.  Even the first quarter of 2021 we were up 70% over 2020.  That may sound good to you but not to me.  My employees are not machines.  They are people and absolutely beat tired.  Tough year given they had to work remotely at times and there have been so many product supply problems.    

Just last week with everything like travel re-opening it suddenly and profoundly slowed down.  Thank God. But I'm TRULY SORRY if anyone sounded rushed during the peak periods.

Also before I bag out of here I'd like to say something about tube life.  The best tube tester is your ears.  Buy a new set, run them 200 hours, then compare them to the old set.  If the old ones sound good then leave them.  Yes you can get a lot more hours than you think from tubes.  It depends on how hard they are running. 

I have a customer that was new to tubes that bought a DiaLogue Premium with KT120's and his buddy told him to never turn it off as it would sound better so he did just that for over six months before checking back with us.   I told him that's not good and with over 4300 hours he should replace them.  But because I wanted to help him out we would re-test his now worn-out tubes to see if anything could be salvaged.   

I was shocked after I tested them.  He had the original boxes with test results and after 4300 hours they were at 90% of new.  Running a low plate voltage and easy biasing works.  Regardless, it's about the sound.  Especially when tubes are new old stock or are expensive. 

About the fellow that got a bad tube and his ARC amp blew up.  We buy from where they buy.  I pay more for my KT150's wholesale than guys sell them for on Ebay, so use your noggin.  We burn them in for 72 hours, and I had custom programming done for my Ampitrex to mimic the actual ARC design, and we've had great success with that. We spend 10 minutes testing each KT150 because they have to settle down. If there was any process that could be improved, we would do it. 

But any tube can fail.  They have failures too.     KT150's are kind of a jacked-up tube because they can take a hit in shipping that changes how they measure. Rare, but happens.  I have had guys buy tubes from ARC and had shorts that broke their amps and they don't pay for repairs if your amp is out of warranty. Things simply don't work that way.  

A tube short should not break your amp if it has a plate fuse, but up until just recently, ARC did not use them.  Now that's changing. I know my stuff and worked for a very large ARC dealer (probably the biggest) way back in the day.  My Classic 60 blew up twice but I was probably asking for it dinking around too much.  Back then I had plate and screen resistors on hand to do it myself. 

Great people, nice amp but that's the way it is.   New ownership there now and I bet they do good things. I wish them tons of success.