Upsampling PCM or DSD in 2022

@erik_squires I looked into upsampling with Roon. When I use the computer as Roon Core only (and send the stream to the HiFi), I don't see the ability to upsample. I do see the ability to upsample when the computer is also acting as the streamer. I've searched the Roon forums, and that's all I've seen. If you know of a setting I've missed, please share. 

@jgoldrick I am interested to try upsampling PCM to DSD. Looks like a bit of a learning curve to use HQP generally, but I'm hoping that once the settings are all dialed in that I won't have to fiddle with the software much after that. We'll see how it goes. 

It's funny to me that USB cables become relevant again to attain DSD. As my system is graduating from entry level gear, this next tiers of DACs mostly have DSD decoding abilities. 

@deadhead1000 I've been trying to avoid introducing general purpose computers into the audio chain, but when Spotify ditched it's CD quality tier I caved and picked up Roon and Qobuz. I still don't particularly like having to boot up a computer in a different room and launch Roon on it to be able to cast Qobuz to the HiFi--not as convenient as I'd like. But I recently read about someone converting their internet to optical to isolate their server from the streamer. It's a $100 project. I'm going to try that out too. 

Thank you @erik_squires. That Sample Rate Conversion slider was the setting I was missing. 

When I get a chance to listen critically, I'll post my findings here. I know in the past years casting Qobuz that I notice the difference between 16-bit and 24-bit content. But I haven't picked up on SQ improvements based solely on sample rate. This might be because bit depth variable has always been easier to test for. This will be my first time intentionally isolating sample rate. 

This leads me to another question, how might I go about upscaling the bit depth? (Is "upscaling" the right word here?) I can't easily attach screen shots here to show, but Roon's "sample rate conversion" area only seems to affect the sample rate, not the bit depth. 

A few takeaways from the discussion so far:

1. People here have a strong preference for a format, whether it’s PCM or DSD. That tells me DSD is something I need to hear, and I can decide whether I prefer it or not. My current DAC doesn’t support DSD, but all of the upgrades I’m considering do, so I will trial DSD at some point in the future.
2. People with PS Audio’s DAC-based upsampling solution seem to greatly enjoy it. However, server-side upsampling doesn’t seem to be as polarized--for or against. I’m in the process of replacing the rug in the listening room. Hardwood is exposed for now, but I may try A-B’ing Roon’s (PCM) upsampling before and after with the hardwood, and later with the rug.
3. I just ordered the components to convert cable to fiber right before internet enters the streamer. I’ll try A-B’ing Roon’s (PCM) upsampling before and after inserting fiber as well. If fiber has the effect I hope it does, fiber may help further reveal the benefits/detriments to upsampling.

I’m expecting fiber to make a big positive difference. But from this conversation, I’m not certain whether Roon’s upsampling will be a net improvement. I have a lot of variables to control for, so I’ll be a bit longer before reporting my findings.

@hgeifman

I started this thread over a year ago and have mentally made note of other audio upsampling options. Besides offerings from Chord and PS Audio, Lumin streamers support upscaling to DSD, Emm labs DAC upsamples to DSD. I forget what others upsample off hand.

I like watching Steve Huff’s reviews, and in this review of the Lumin U2, Huff claims to prefer Spotify streams upsampled to DSD through the Lumin over high res streams. That is quite a big claim. If I also found that I preferred Spotify streams upsampled to DSD over streams from Qobuz/Tidal, I would pretty quickly drop my Qobuz, Tidal, and Roon subscriptions. But based on my experience with upsampled DSD via HQ Player, I don’t expect to prefer upsampled DSD via Lumin to native high res PCM.

One takeaway from Huff’s video, however, was that an upsampler placed at the streamer level or farther downstream, would benefit all lossy content -- which arguably would benefit form upsampling the most. My wife and I both love Spotify and haven’t made the jump to Apple Music even though we have Apple devices. Although Apple Music contains high res content, I don’t like Apple Music’s policy of deleting my saved music, artists, and playlists if I ever take a hiatus from it’s subscription.

Regarding HQ Player, I found HQ Player to be a laggy and a clunky experience generally. I wasn’t a fan of waiting 5 seconds for music to begin. Sometimes I would press play and nothing would happen. I used HQ Player to see if DSD was something I would get into, but I preferred the sound of PCM to (upsampled) DSD on my system. And, when I used HQ Player to upsample CD quality tracks from Tidal into high res, I ended up preferring those filters that sounded the same as CD quality streamed from Tidal through Roon.

I never did get around to installing HQ Player onto a computer to sit between the Roon Core and streamer, which may solve the inconsistent experience or reduced lag. I also haven’t installed HQ Player on an M-chip Apple device to see if that removed lag as someone claimed. HQ Player allowed me to experiment with my system and get a taste for (upsampled) DSD. I also found it fascinating how different filter/dither options in HQ Player could alter the sound.