The following is a timeline for my Journey with TT's and how being a user has shaped my owner ship and the most used designs.
I have used a Garrard 401, that was in a 9 Stone Weight Granite Plinth.
This TT/Plinth is now sold on to a friend and I get to hear it occassionally.
The use of the 401, was on the back burner for a period of time as the new owner went heavily into working with Lenco GL 75's and other Idler Drives from this Brand.
I have heard these projects as works in progress and completed works in many Build Guises and Plinth Designs using different materials to achieve the end product.
I myself own a PTP Solid 9 with a Purpose Produced Speed Controller this model is a variant of a Lenco GL75.
I keep an Idler Drive close by as I have very much enjoyed the TT as a design since the 90's
I probably use a Idler Drive for about 10 Hours per year as a guestimate.
I have been instrumental in introducing TT minded folk to Idler Drives and converting their thoughts that have produced new owner users.
Especially ones who was comparing the Idler Drive Design to a Belt Drive Design.
I also own a few belt drive TT's that date back to being owned and used in the 90's but these do not really produce much as a stimulation to encourage being used, and I may have used one Model as a 'guestimate' for approx' 30 Hours in the past 10 Years.
I don't get too excited about these type of drives.
I own a DP-80, TTS-8000, Aurex SR-510 , and a SP10-MkII.
Firstly for the OP, Thank You for Pointing out the Platter Bearing Housing/Spindle and Platter /Spindle issues.
I own two TTS 8000's and the Sideways Movement of the Spindle in the housing is known to me.
When the Speed is measured on a Stand Alone Strobe, the fluctuation in speed is seen and a eccentric rotation is being produced.
Further Investigation has shown that there is also unwanted movement on the Platters Centre Bush to Spindle contact.
When this is present it is not only a record ward that should be of a concern, think of the plate spinner and a plate not given a rotation.
These are issues that can be addressed and in the UK are being addressed for some TTS-8000 Owners and this same support has recently been offered to German Nationality TTS-8000 owners who have not been in denial of the condition.
When a Platter Spindle on a TTS-8000 is removed from the Housing a Scribe has been witnessed engraved into the interference fitted ball at the Spindles Base.
More Grinding to be audibly noticed and another part in need of being serviced.
All that said, the TTS-8000 has been a great TT for me it has made me be fully aware of the pitfalls of buying Vintage, and the measures required to overcome the discoveries being made.
It is because of this that I requested a support from a Engineer and the design to resolve the defects and work produced is being requested by others, as a result of this endevour.
The Aurex SR-510 has a lot going for it, I got into it as it is reported in other places as having a very good Sound Quality, even comparable to Microsieki DD's from similar vintage.
It has a proper lump of Copper for the Motor and was a Top of the Range Model when Vinyl was in a wane.
A lot can be achieved from this Model and potentially the lesser Model the SR-410.
The SP10 Mk II that I own does it for me, it Blows my Socks Off.
It has been fully stripped and rebuilt with a attention on the Platter Bearing as well.
I heard a very similar refurbished model at a Turntable Bake Off and the TT just worked it ws a show stopper.
A Friend heard mine and now owns more than one, and had had one produced to the same Spec as mine.
Another friend heard mine and the other friends and now owns a SP10R.
Another Friend has been getting a SP10 MKII refurbished as well.
There are dedicated threads to this TT on many forums.
It will not bow down to any TT when treated correctly and the learning being made known about this TT is still producing methods to Transform it to elevated levels above the level of refurbishment that I am familiar with.
My latest endevour for the SP10 MkII is to have a Phosphor Bronze Platter Produced and a matching Periphery Ring.
I can only see myself creating the best for the SP10, the other TT's will be given fair lore to compete, but I can't see them ever taking the Title off the MkII.
I really like Vintage TT's, but I really really really like my SP10 MkII. |
Another limiting factor with a TTS-8000 is the Platter.
There are today Japanese Vintage DD TT's with Platters produced from a few differnet metals, but the USP of the Non Standard Platters is the weight.
This as a design has been created in Japan by the Manufactures of DD TT's
Today if investigated, there is an overspill of this method being produced from small scale artisan services.
A SR-510, DP-80 and SP10 can all have a direct platter exchange, if a alternative approach is desired, then a Part is sourced or produced.
The TTS-8000 can't really have a New Platter as a direct exchange,
any methods to add weight to the Platter will need to keep the OEM Platter incorporated into the design.
The spindle might need attention as well to allow for certain methods to be used.
The Engineer working on the Phosphor Bronze Platter, is looking into a method to enable one platter to be used on all of my DD TT's but is aware the SP10 method is the priority and should not be compromised for the sake of the others. |
A Platter Mat is a interface on a TT.
It will produce different outcomes to a presentation in differing environments.
It is also part of the Construction Tiers, if an individual is looking to use Sub Plinths and Footers along with other materials to give the Stylus > Tonearm an environment that is able to create a Sound that is unique to the producer of the construction methods and their preferences for a particular presentaion.
One Individuals ’Can’t Live Without Mat’ will more than likely be
Three other Individuals ’Hot Poker End’ and trying to them to touch it more than once will be fun.
Additionally the Person who is sharing their experiences and their preferences for a particular mat type,
they are 'Wed To' , also is 'Wed To' another Footer, which is to be used in place of the Manufacturers orignal selection for a design.
I will assume when these 'Wed To' methods of support are used within the Individuals listening space a presentation is achieved that offers a much enjoyed satisfaction.
An individual that is making a Vinyl Source their main source for music replays and is willing to a spend time listening to TT’s they have placed onto a Short List, and if possible listen to them in a created environment for the setting up of the TT.
That allows a presentation to be produced that suits the listeners unique preferences, will ensure they are having a great time.
If a selecton of construction materials are available to be trialed for the TT Support, the trying out of various permutations of materials being used under the Stylus, might just change ones perception of a TT’s capabilities.
Especially if a not so popular choice of model, that is quite different from the regularly made known choices,
proves to be capable of thoroughly impressing.
Following finding such a discovery of what is a impressive TT and what is proving satisfying as a supporting method.
Then a play with, Stylus Weight, VTA and even using the different equations for the Maximum - Minimum Radius Setting Up Protractor methods that are commonly referred to, might just bring the whole arrangement to a place, that is percieved for the for the better, and much more than at any time had been imagined. |
A Technics SP10R I was listening to on the weekend Past was on Gaia IsoAcoustic Footers and the Quad ESL's were on IsoAcoustic Pods.
The Owner went this route after trialling various feet following a experience with my AT 616 and SoidTech 'Feet of Silence' that were loaned for a trial in the system. |
If the AT-616 Footer is produced in an era when Japanese Vintage TT's were in their Prime, and Yet to be superseded by cheaper Mass Produce Belt Drive TT's.
The AT-616 should be a ideal footer to a Person that is maintianing a Source in a System from that is True to the 70's/80's.
There are Individuals who have Vintage TT's ( Motor Type not so important, that have Vintage Tonearms with Vintage Wiring remaining and Cartridges from the same Era)
To remain loyal to the authenticity is not a incorrect practice it is a choice that ceates a satisfaction to the user.
I have numerous options to hand as footers, in most cases the only real differences that offer thje WOW! impression is when the correct choice is made under a TT, thst offers a presentation that realy suits the end user.
I own AT-616, and have then in my Design for a Construction used as a Isolation Support.
The TT' Base and Cabinet Speakers are both using them.
The Speakers are seated on the AT-616 and the Sub Plinths for the TT are Supported by AT-616.
For a direct contact with a TT Plinth, in my system the AT-616 have been superseded and are replaced with SolidTech 'Feet of Silence'.
The 'FOS' have the most uniquitous capabilities, all loans of these have made extremely valued impressions.
To the point where after follow up investigations by individuals that have loaned the 'FOS' the choice of Footer settled on has been a IsoAcoutics GAIA.
As said in a previous post, another friend who has a bespoke produced Rack, was so impressed with the 'FOS' he produced his own design to be used in conjunction with the Rack.
I am yet to see and hear the outcome of the project.
It is not so much about the Footer, it is about the impression a Footer makes on a end user, not all will require a particular Model or Design to feel impressed and satisfied with their choice.
As important as the Footer in direct contact with the TT Plinth is what is underneath the Footer as a Support.
A Footers performance will vastly improve when given an environment to allow it to offer its best properties. |
As said previously, the Types of Footer under discussion are not only referred to for the improvements thay are making when used with a TT Support or as a Cabinet Speaker Support.
A friend is using IsoAcoutic Pods under their Electostatic Loudspeakers.
They are veru greatful to my introducing them to, and loaning the AT-616 and the Feet of Silence.
As this triggerd their research into the available options to mimic the impressions that were left from the loan period. |
I'm seeing references being made on conjecture as to the effect a Suspension Support/ Footer can offer to a Device, which is suggesting the use of one is to be detrimental to a performance.
It would be a much more Valid statement if the claimes were supported by I have used the types of Support/Footer being discussed and during my usage I did not detect any of the merits they are receiving from other users.
Experiences of individuals who have used the Support/Footers are being reported on within this Thread.
Where the evidence of having used the Support is perceived as a
'actual' occurrence has been noticed, and one for the betterment of the device being supported.
Hands on experience is a Great Tool to be used in conjunction with the weapons in a Armoury. |
The OP has made it known there is a Short List for the Vintage DD.
Also the OP made a reference to specific Plinth Materials.
The selection of Footers for a Plinth when matched correctly is a Marriage made in HiFi Heaven.
A Good Couple will get through the Test of Time and last out for many anniversaries.
No different to my Partner of 37 Years, she is my Cornerstone.
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@neonknight
Are you any closer to making a decision on your Brand / Model of a
Vintage DD TT and are there any furthering of your plans for it ? |
A friend who has been a Mentor for a proportion of my Journey in HiFi in relation to Turntables, has their own TT Mounted on a Wall Mounted Steel Framed Shelf.
A Sub Plinth is also used and Two Types of Footer used between The Plinth, Sub Plinth and Wall Shelf.
When I am in my friends environment I can not imagine a better method to mount the TT.
In my own environment I have tried a Steel Framed Wall Shelf as a Basic Support and also with various Sub Plinth Construction Methods.
I have also used Rack Mounting on the Racks Top Shelf.
The Best I have achieved is the Consruction I have in use to sit the Rack On and the Construction I use on Top of the Rack.
The Sound Quality that is being produced in my listening environment, is the most satisfying I have achieved over many years of working with the permutations of materials used in the constructions used as a Support.
The Next Stop really has to be Trialing with Plinth Materials.
I am at present using a Compressed Plywood that is approx' 800Kg a Cubic Metre
(1764 lb per 1.3 Cubic Yard)
The Next Trial is going to be with a Compressed Plywood that is approx'
1400Kg a Cubic Metre ( 3087 lb per 1.3 Cubic Yard )
There is quite a lot of information availble where the merits of coupling a Japanese Vintage DD TT, to a Densified Wood Plinth are made known. |
I've settled for a Particular Plinth Material for Four Years on my 'Go To'
Japanese Vintage DD TT.
I have moved on from the Mass Design Plinths, the Granite Monolith is no longer with me.
I still have a Laminated Corian Plinth on a Idler Drive and a Lead Loaded Plinth on anoother model of a Vintage Japanese DD TT.
The Densified Wood is the next material of interest.
I have heard it used on Three TT's used as a 20mm (3/4") and a
30mm ( 1'1/4") Thick Material.
I have boards of it in a 75mm ( 3") Material, but those who know this product will inform that 75mm is a excessive thickness, it can be cut to produce a less thick board.
The Plan now is actually to produce Two Plinths from the same Densified Wood Materials.
One Plinth will be used to support the TT Motor and Chassis as a Standard Mounting Method, and the other will be used to support the
TT Motor only in a Design known as the Kaneta.
Each Design when produced will have the same Tonearm in use and the trials between the Two Designs will be undertaken using a selection of Cartridges.
If all goes to plan, each TT will have a modified Platter Bearing using the latest technologies to modernise it and a stiffening to produce less flex to the Bearing Housing will be used.
A Phosphor Bronze Platter is being produced to Work on Each TT.
This is to be trialled against the OEM Platter and a Lamination of another
material added to the OEM Platter.
A Bespoke Phosphor Bronze Periphery Ring is to be produced to be used for the trials as well.
Trials of this type have been undertaken in another Country,
between the SP10 MKII 'OEM', MKII Kaneta and SP10R.
The reports have been extremely positive and measurements are recorded and used to show how different materials are interfacing.
These reports are being taken as 'worthy of consideration' by myself and a friend, with the result being the investigations are a worthwhile endeavour and the efforts to get this opportunity to a fruition and share in the experince has started.
Another timely experince to be undertaken is the recent report from another Engineer Friend, who has very recently declared that their
Brand New Design Tonearm is almost ready to be made available for Beta Trials.
It would be great to use this New Tonearm Design with the New Plinth TT's and another local friends SP10R, especially as the New Design Tonearm can be compared with my Bespoke Redesigned and Rebuilt Audio Technica AT-1010 (PMAT-1010) and the Glanz 12" Arm on the SP10R.
Swapping the Cartridge, so that all the Cartridges used in comparisons are a match, will be a unavailable on the Glanz Arm and this option, will, I assume not be available, as the Miyajima Cartridge on the Glanz was set up by a TT Specialist with a Software.
The Autumn Months are looking like there will be a very interesting set of experiences to be undertaken.
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The Thread appears to be Wandering once more.
The OP has made it known in their first Post that there is an interest to receive information about Vintage Japanese DD TT’s from a particular era, and has helped that era be dialled in on by making various Models known that have been experienced, or are Short Listed to be experienced.
There is a Clear Comprehensive Inquiry asking about options on Plinth Materials, to which the Thread has supplied invaluable information to be assessed, with the added information on Sub Plinth Support,
I am thinking these are (Bonus Points) to an inquiry, especially the AT-616 suggestion.
There was also references made to complications that are known with certain Brands TT Models,
be it a Difficult to achieve support with Servicing, a cost associated with a pristine model, or a blatant defective condition known to develop on a Branded Model.
The OP has had confirmation offered on a concern about the blatant defective condition, but has not been guided on how to overcome the other concerns.
Maybe there is still somebody to contribute to this.
The Request for information in relation to TT’s and Plinths is to my mind quite broad, and this has been met with a invaluable offering from the forum members.
The OP’s rigidness on their choice of Tonearm has also been respected,
and they have been left to not have to be confronted with the suggestions of using a different Tonearm.
I hope this is a satisfactory outcome for the OP.
It is totally OK on a Forum to make an inquiry, it is not really possible to control the feedback offered, but as long as the information being made available has a relation to the request for information, all offerings from others will have a value to some degree.
Two Forum Members have recently chosen to make their thoughts on the information being offered to support the OP’s original inquiry Public.
One Forum Member for approx Five Years, and who as a Thread Creator in that time, has produced 'Five Threads' that are inquiries.
Recommends the OP’s inquiry on Plinth Materials and the other members contributions on the Plinth Material,
is in their words giving ’bulls**t attention and is a waste of time.
I am not convinced this is a worthwhile analogy myself.
Their encouragement to listen to Music is very welcome.
The other Forum Member who has been a Forum Member for approx Ten Years and Six Months, and who as a Thread Creator in that Time, has produced 32 Threads, of which 24 Threads are inquiries.
Of which some of these inquiries are extremely closely related to the content of the OP’s inquiry on this Thread.
This members has shown what appears to be a support for the recommendation of the above Forum Member.
I do agree that trying to detect Siesmic Activity whilst listening to a System would be a wasteful undertaking and is a good guidance to offer.
Additionally and ’hats of to this person’ for their humour, they have some how found a way to mock their usage of 16 x AT-616 as a method to protect their HiFi equipment from the effects of a Alien Invasion and a little activity within the Lithosphere.
Long Threads can do with a little interval that has a element of Humour.
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The desision to decline the TTS 8000 if there is not access to somebody to assist with some of the known issues will leave you with one less hurdle to climb over, if a purchase did show the known conditions that can develop.
A Spindle Housing Bush is not a Direct Exchange with a Off the Shelf Bush Part.
The ID is 11mm and OD 16mm.
A of the Shelf Bush with a close match will be ID 11.11mm.
The Platter connection to the Spindle will need a complete rethink as to how to overcome the unsuitable coupling and wobble that can be detected on certain Models.
A Worn Bush can be explained with a few descriptions, but the Platter connection to the Spindle seems to be born from Machining Tolerance issues, as it is not realy exposed to any wear during usage.
It looks like your First Choice of TT is a complete Curve Ball to the original inquiry, and looks like a nice piece of kit.
It is a New Model to myself and I am liking the aesthetics of the design.
The DP80 as a Second Choice is a product with many followers much of the previuous post will be related to this model, as it is a DD.
Additional Information might need to be supplied to assist with getting the best support set up under theFirst Choice that is a Belt Drive.
Keep on with your updates they are appreciated |
It looks like your plan has a Solid Foundation from experiences enjoyed.
The acquisition of a TT built with today's technologies, that has been a inspiration in the past, is surely an exciting venture.
This is a approach, I seem to get caught up in, investigating and pursuing using modern technologies on TT's.
Very much looking forward to your user evaluations when you are ready to report on them. |
The Transfiguration Proteus is a MC Cartridge I have been very curious about.
During the Xmas Break in 2020, I was a hair trigger from making a Purchase.
The seller was UK based but decided to keep it.
I am keeping up with a market scan to see if another shows at a reasonable asking price.
VAS NY Inc is showing that their service is able to keep these Cartridges in good fettle, which is good news for when buying used, and also for extending the length of time the Model can be used. |
