A blast from the past! I heard one of the Audire's years ago, not sure which one but it could have been the Otez. In any event, I'm sure it would do very well with the Mani's. My recollection is that they sound similar to Plinius. Are they still in business? |
Thanks very much and yes that gives me a good baseline to work from. I’m pleasantly surprised to hear that the single CJ gave you good results. I think my Plinius probably has a little more guts than the CJ so it appears that it may be a pretty good match, at least to start. I’m also not surprised that the more powerful B&K is giving you the best results so far. It’s my understanding that when you bi-amp, 2x100w doesn’t necessary give you 200w. So the two 2100’s probably weren’t giving you near the power that your getting from the Sonatas. Good luck with your search. I’d be interested in hearing about your next step. Please feel free to email directly and if I buy the Mani’s I’ll be happy to do the same.
Regards, Mark
BTW, where are all the other Mani 2 Owner’s? I’m very much interested in hearing as many opinions as possible. |
Well I did the deed...I bought the Mani's...so now I'll have the opportunity to find out for myself. Thanks everyone very much for your input. Can't wait for the fun to start. |
Ah ha, a naysayer. Baroque lover, I mean that in a very positive way. I really don’t want to make a $4k mistake or have to buy a new amp. Actually I wouldn’t mind a new 9200 or for that matter trying some Plinius separates, but alas back to reality. All you Mani owners please keep those comments coming, either positive or negative. |
Well I've listened to the Forests, and while they’re very good speakers, they don't measure up to the Mani's IMO. Ever since I first listened to the Mani's over a year ago I've had "Mani on the mind". It is just an exceptional speaker, again IMO. I also owned Threshold gear many moons ago, back when Nelson Pass was designing/making it. Also very good gear, but I’ve really come to like the warm, fluid, and sweet sound that seems to be characteristic of the Plinius gear. So the request for opinions goes on. Come on Mani owners. I know you’re out there! |
Thanks very much for your comments Js123. I haven’t had the pleasure of auditioning Levinson either; however, I’m sure it makes for an exceptionally good combination. It also appears that you are in the 200 W + camp for driving the Mani’s, so another vote for more power. Any more Mani owners out there using less powerful SS amps with satisfactory results? Or for that matter any more Mani owners that are adamant that you need something with at least 200 watts. Please, keep those cards and letters coming. |
Thanks for the clarification. I misspoke. What I should have said was standard biamping using the 9100 for the mids and highs and the P8 for the bass. Still need to find out about the gain and rise time of the two amps. I've sent a inquiry to Plinius and I'm awaiting a reply. |
Wow! If I had to guess I would have said twice that. My son lives in Seattle. I you don't mind giving me a litte more specific info, I'd like him to check them out the next time he's on the island. |
Currently I have 24” Plateau V series stands (4 post stands that are similar to Totem’s). They’re good and heavy and filled with sand and do a good job with my Model 1’s. So I guess I’ll start there. I have learned that stands make a HUGE difference so I may look at the Totem T4L stands (or other alternatives) down the road. Those solid marble stands that Telemarc is using sure look interesting, but I hate to think what they cost! Telemarc, if you're still on board, maybe you could give us a little more info. For that matter the T4L’s are pretty expensive as well. Seems like that would be a good topic for another thread.
Tumbler, I’m glad to hear that you’ve had good success with “low” powered amps. I’ve never gone the tube route, at least in amplification, but I’ve considered it many times. I have a Velodyne DD12 sub that I currently use with my Model 1’s so I’ll have that to play around with too. It’s crossed over at about 90Hz with my Model 1’s but I’m thinking that I’ll have to go a lot lower with the Mani’s. Maybe around 30Hz. Any thoughts? |
Telemarc, just re-read my last post and other than the typo's (sorry about that), just so there’s no confusion, I was asking for more information on the person that made the stands. |
Thank you both for the information on the stands. Just one more thing that's on the list. It's funny how you tell yourself "well this is all I need to give me the sonic bliss I've been searching for all these years" and then even before you get the speakers you're already thinking about a new amp, new speakers stands...gee I wonder is my speaker wires are good enough! |
Thanks for your input Marc. I would have loved to have heard the Mani 2/CJ combo. I bet it was out of this world. I’ve been meaning to update my thread so you have given me the incentive to post again.
Since my last post I ended up buying a used pair of Mani’s here on A’gon. I’ve had them now for about 3 weeks and I’ve been listening to them pretty much non-stop ever since. First let me say that they are every bit as wonderful as I remembered them and just fill the room with beautiful music. I would also say that for my room, my preferred volume levels, and my types of music (jazz, new age, and some rock) the Plinius 9100 drives them exceptionally well and to exceptionally loud levels (at least to my ears). But as you may have gathered from my previous posts I was just itching for an excuse to buy a new amp. So for the first week that I had them, I pretty much schlepped them all over town auditioning amps. Upon the advice of a fellow Audiogoner (thanks again Tumbler) I was particularly interested in hearing the Mani’s paired with tube gear. I auditioned them with Mac, both SS and tube, ARC both SS and tube, Plinius 9200 and separates, Music Reference, and Musical Fidelity. What I found was that the Mani’s sound just wonderful with tube gear, which seems to reinforces Marc’s comments about the CJ gear (I’m assuming the amps were tube as well). Since this is my first exposure to tubes, I must also say that I was somewhat taken back by just how wonderful they sounded with “small” tube amps given what I had always heard regarding the mega watts you need to drive these puppies. What I’m here to tell you, at least in my opinion, is that you don’t need a lot of power to do justice to the Mani’s.
Well what did I end up with you ask. Well before you start laughing so loud you can’t finish reading my post please bear with me a little longer. I ended up with tubes as you could have guessed. But what may be hard to grasp is that I ended up buying the Music Reference RM-10 MKII. It's just a little bitty amp, a mere 14 lbs. and puts out 35 watts per side (bridgeable to 70w). But it’s just an engaging little amp, very musical, warm, involving, dynamic but delicate, with a huge sound stage, all the buzz words! Does it really have enough power to run the Man’s? Well in my case I think I does, but the verdict is still out. Worst case, I'll buy another one and bridge them. I might also add that the price of these amps is under $2k new. No, not cheap, but compared to some of the other stuff I listened to it’s a bargain. I might also add that I picked up a used Audio Research SP16L here on A’gon to mate up with the RM-10, which really helps the sound stage, imaging and bass, yes I said bass, which is really quite amazing when you think about that fact that it’s only 35 watts driving the Mani’s. I think it’s also a very good match with Music Reference. And yes its tube bass, which I’ve also come to find that I prefer to SS bass. And again I listened to some BIG SS amps.
So what’s the moral of the story? I guess there are really two points that I’m trying to make here: (1) IMO you don’t need mega watts to drive the Mani’s to reasonably loud levels; and (2) if you own a pair of Mani’s you really owe it to yourself to listen to them with some quality tube gear. You might just be amazed! |
Likewise, I do not have grills for the Mani's but I do have grills for my Model 1's and Mites. I have never done a serious comparison with the grills on and off but there does seem to be somewhat of a "muffling" effect with the grills on. |
Assuming you do not have a very large room and listen at ear-bleed levels the CJ 2500 should drive the Mani’s quite well. As I mentioned before, I had an opportunity to listen to the Mani’s with several different types and power levels of application. I found that 200 watts of a high current SS amp did a very nice job and at least for my tastes was more than enough power. Enjoy the Mani’s and let us know how the CJ 2500 works out. |
I just answered your email as well but what are you attempting to do? In your email you mention 200v. You can switch from 120v to 220v or back again by changing the wiring "harness" between the inlet and power supply. No soldering involved. Very simple. Just not sure if the 220v setting is safe to run on 200v. Best to check with Plinius or maybe someone else on A'gon can advise. |
Wow! Sounds like you're a happy camper! You've almost convinced me to give them a try as well. I seem to remember from another thread that we both posted on that you also have an ARC tube amp. Have you tried the tube amp with the Mani's yet? I'd be interested in your impressions of that match up as well. Enjoy the Mani's! |
Too bad about the wife thing, but I can definitely relate. It would have been interesting though to have heard your opinion of the ARC tube amp/Mani combo. I actually auditioned the ARC VS110 with the Mani’s but I liked the Music Reference combo better. In fact, now that I think about it I also auditioned the Mani’s with the Ayre V5 and it was probably my favorite SS amp of the lot next to Plinius. But after 30+ years of being a SS guy, I think I’ll stick with tubes for now. Although I must say that 30 day money back guarantee that Bel Canto is offering sure sounds tempting. Happy listening. |
I use the Plateau 4 pillar stands for my Mani’s. They’re actually carryovers from my Model 1’s so I can’t comment on the virtues of any other stands with the Mani’s. The Plateau stands did however make a big difference with the Model 1’s as compared to some other lighter weight single post stands. The Plateau’s are also close to the stands that Totem sold/recommends (or sells if you can still get them) for use with their speakers. Generally speaking I think a heavy 4 pillar stand filled with sand or shot will be much better sonically than the single post metal (or wood) stands that depending on your taste may be aesthetically more appealing. Regarding the Velcro for the speaker grills, I used grills for a while on my Model 1’s and then took them off. No problem at all removing the glue residue from the speaker cabinet and a little teak oil and they look as good as new. I think you’ll find that the speakers sound better with the grills off but you’ll have to be the judge of that.
Congrat’s on the Mani’s. They are really great speakers. |
Hey Glukeman:
Thanks for the comments. It’s good to be excited about something you’re passionate about. Your post was actually very timely in that I was in the market for a new preamp to replace my Audio Research SP16. I considered DeHavilland but never had an opportunity to listen to one. I ended up buying the Conrad Johnson CT 6. It’s still in transit but I’m looking forward to hearing it in my set-up. I have to tell you though that in my medium size room (about 15’x22’) my Mani’s driven by Music Reference RM10 tube amps sound glorious!! |
Thanks very much for your input Telemarc. I’ve read about the Amber but I’ve never had the opportunity to audition one. I’m sure it sounds wonderful with your Mani’s. Coincidently, I also have a sliding door along one wall and my other wall is open to a hall/stairway so it appears that our listening areas may be very similar. Based on what your said I’m also starting to feel a little more confident that the Plinius can do the job. I’m not sure that it measures up to the Amber but they are similar in terms of power. BTW I’m very intrigued by your stands. I guess you don’t have to worry about filling those babies with sand! |
I think the general consensus is that 200 watts is probably enough power to run the Mani’s full out. The purpose of this thread however is to obtain opinions, either positive or negative, as to whether 125 watts is enough to run the Mani’s given the criteria I mentioned in the original post. With that said I can tell you that I auditioned the Mani’s with the 9200 and IMO it’s a wonderful match. If you get the 9200, do yourself a favor and run it on 220v and be amazed. I know I was when I converted my 9100. |
Bdgregory, my last post was just before I read this and was primarily directed to answering Grakesh’s question. Whoa is right!!! We seem to be going in the opposite direction of what I was hoping to hear, but can you please tell us what you are now hearing with 800w vs. what you heard with ONLY 400w. BTW do you just keep a bunch of spare amps hanging around just in case? |
No apology required Bdgregory. Your posts are very much appreciated and informative. I think what I’m beginning to get from this thread (and probably already knew) is that more is better with the Mani’s, but that I can get satisfactory results with my 9100 at least to start. In that regard your comment that “you effectively get a new set of speakers without having bought any” when you do upgrade your amp is an interesting analogy. My challenge in that regard is that if I do get the Mani’s how long I could wait until I got the upgrade bug again. But then I guess that’s what this hobby is all about. The bi-amp option using the 9100 and say the Plinius P8 is also something that I am looking into. I’m not sure if the gain of the two is compatible in a vertical bi-amp mode. If it is, it could be a very natural progression to follow.
Please let us know how your tweaking goes this weekend. Can’t wait to see what you’re planning for an on core!! |
Ghunter, I’ll be interested in your impressions once you have a chance to listen to the Bel Canto/Mani combo. It seems that the general consensus is still high power solid state amplification for the Mani’s. As I mentioned earlier I’m using the Music Reference RM10 MKII tube amps to drive my Mani’s. And yes, I did buy a second one and now run them in mono block (about 70 wpc). Again for my listening habits (about a 90 - 95db peak is loud for me) the RM10’s do fine. I will say that the extra 3db of head room that I got by adding the 2nd amp does come in handy sometimes, for example this weekend when I was listening to the Pink Floyd Pulse DVD, but I still have a hard time grasping why you need those mega watts. How loud do you guys listen? Anybody else out there using tubes with the Mani’s?
BTW Glukeman, I’m also interested in what improvements you hear with the Mani Signatures. The Mani’s are definitely keepers for me but I’m considering trading in my “originals” for the Signatures. |
