Upgrading sub to get a live feel.

@mcreyn, wow really good post. I'm actually restoring my '84 911 and was thinking of adding a car stereo system, but always wondered if I could ever get something that would sound close to what I get in my home system. I have to admit I am a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to car audio, but you have now sparked my interest to research this further.

On the home front my room is somewhat small, 20' x 12', and I have used a version of the swarm for the last few years that was inspired by some work Roger Modjeski at Music Reference was doing and the way in which he designed and ran his ESL speakers. I don't play loud, under 80 dB, no home theater, and most of the music I listen to doesn't have anything that extends below 30 Hz. I'm now upgrading the woofers to 10" housed in sealed boxes, and thanks to mijostyn who has posted on a few of these threads I have rearranged my swarm to be what he refers to as a line source bass array. We both use Acoustant speakers (his 2+2, mine Model 2) so his experience was helpful. In addition to my panels, I use a Beveridge RM3 crossover with 4th order 24 dB slopes for high and low pass, and biamp. I've been really pleased with the results so far and I'm looking forward to hearing what the upgrade brings.

Your experience though has me thinking about some other options for the future. In some ways perhaps active subs might be more beneficial for my next listening room. Rythmik is on my radar, but would be curious to know more about your setup and some pointers about using multiple active subs.

@mcreyn, yeah Tim was interesting at first, but now it's gotten pretty old. I am a fan of Duke LeJeune's speakers having owned the Jazz Modules before finding ESL nirvana. So when he developed his Swarm I had always intended to give it a go, until I started working with Roger Modjeski and he convinced me to go down a different path. Either way it would have worked out well.

The active crossover is EQed and my Acoustats have been modified. Of the two panels in each speaker, one is actually Roger's ESL panel. They have also been modified to use the Acoustat direct drive amps. So no interfaces.

Thanks for the tip on the car system and software. I'll look into it further.

@mijostyn, what engine rebuild, lol, 208k miles (112k with me) and not even a recommendation of a valve job on the horizon (has had a transmission rebuild though). The clear coat is flaking off the trunk lid due to some foreign substance that dripped on it while I had it parked at SFO during a business trip, but other than that I just need to wash it more, lol. Interior is very presentable other than the typical dash cracks and the AC stopped working years ago. Don't really need it around here though. Most techs rave about the 3.2L engines as being among the best Porsche ever made (my tech has a car out there with 450k and one valve job on it). Sure the '68-'73 series looked sexier, but the '84-'89 series cars were always being recommended to me when I looked for a replacement for my '72 Targa.

Have you tried a more asymmetrical positioning with the two extra subs. IOW place a couple behind your speakers along the front wall, then the other two should be place along the side walls, but not symmetrical, stagger them. I have also seen arrangements recommended where the subs are place along the front and back wall. I think someone may have linked to the article in this thread. You also have the challenge of setting the volume level of the subs optimally. There are better experts on this thread than I to advise on that. Keep playing with it though, you will eventually getting it dialed in.

@mijostyn, point well taken. Other than the Turbo tie rods and the Bilstein cartridges inside the Boge struts in the back, the car is stock and I intend to keep it that way. I've owned the car for 1/3 of its life. It's not a looker and has over 200,000 miles, but the tech servicing the car keeps it in tip top shape and it's always fun to drive. So now it's time to send it to the spa to get it spruced up a bit.

16 x 30 is the room size.

I prefer sealed subs, but the Audiokinesis Swarm was designed as ported, with the option to seal the port with a plug. The set up used by the designer has the woofers facing the wall as jtcf mentioned. When I used a Swarm like set up I had woofers facing into the room and towards the wall. Even had one next to the listening seat and anyone who came over for a listen, including a friend who designs and sells speakers, couldn't hear any of the subs. He had to ask where the 4th sub was located and when I told him to look over the side of the arm rest he chuckled when he spotted the sub.

In my set up now the two front woofers face each other along the front wall, the other two woofers are next to the speakers and face out into the room per a method recommended by mijostyn who has posted on this thread and other sub threads. Both methods work well for me, but given the type of speakers (line array) I am using now the newer method has resulted in increased bass response and more 3D imaging. If I go back to point source speakers I will go back to an asymmetrical arrangement.

@thewatcher101, how do you like your Resonessence Mirus DAC? Ironically Resonessence shared a room with Audiokinesis at the Long Beach Audio Show where Duke from Audiokinesis was showing off his new two-way hybrid horns and Swarm array. Also ironically Duke set his monitors on top of two of the woofer boxes. I thought the room sounded decent Friday morning but by the afternoon it was sounding really good. Duke's rooms are generally among the best in sound at shows I have attended.