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Upgrading Speaker Cables: Wireworld Silver Eclipse or Transparent Audio Ultra?

More than 15 years ago, I bought a set of speaker cables to accompany my then brand new Revel Ultima Studios and Krell FPB amplifiers.  While I continue to adore the sound of my system, I know there have been a lot of advancements in cable technology this century.  Consequently, I believe that a [relatively] low cost upgrade would be a purchase of new speaker cables.  (I have no intent to replace either my speakers or my amplifiers at this time.)  I live in an area that is several hundred miles distant from any high end dealer, so doing a sonic audition of cables is infeasible; moreover, I could not duplicate my combination of other sources, amplifiers, interconnect cables, and power cords -- as well, of course, of my room environment.

All that being said, I have done tons of reading about speaker cables these past few months.  The result of my efforts has been to narrow down my two upgrade choices (both bi-wired) to Transparent Audio's Ultras and Wireworld Cable's Silver Eclipse.  Coincidentally, their respective MSRPs are between $50 of each other.

Ideally, I would love to read responses from other Audiogon members who have actually auditioned one cable against the other.  That is likely to be nigh unto impossible because I have been unable to identify a single dealer who carries both lines.  Consequently, I would be delighted to receive anyone's thoughts about the pluses and minuses of each individual cable.

Many thanks to all who provide their much appreciated insights!
128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xjmeyers

Showing 9 responses by b4icu

b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
Just some facts:
Ref to the conducting characteristics of Silver it’s better than Copper only by 5%. So actually, by adding 5% to a copper wire’s cross section, you get the same conducting quality as silver.
The only problem is, that Silver is more expensive than copper by 104 times (14,000%) !
So think it over before you run to pay for a silver cable 140 times the price, to gain 5% of conductivity...
For me, it sounds as a bad investment. I would go a different way:

As all matters is the match of your speaker cable to the Amp’s output resistance (DF), pass me the data of your Amp’s DF and required length of the cable, and I return you a calculated figure, of how thick of a cable you need.



b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
Mr.  hifiman5
Wrong!
"Purity of conductors, nature of dielectric, cable geometry, connector quality all matter."
   
Purity: Did you know, that the copper wire industry STD. for copper purity for electric use, is 99.98%. That's the worst!
All purity you may add (none was proven beyond the claim it is!) can improve that by 0.02%.
There is no way that would make any sonic difference.

Nature of electric apply to all circuits and wires to do with electric circuitry. None but Audio cable have that property.
NASA, Military, Biomedical, Measuring Instruments, cell phones, computers, cars industry or any you may bring, way more important than audio, work without that Geometry, snake oil or "nature of dielectric" that no engineering institute from MIT to local college ever teach.
Save it from me, serve it to the ignorants. I have a degree in Electronics.
b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
M.  oldhvymec
Earth is not flat and my cable are not coming from radio shack.
Your preaching post doesn't ref. to the facts I presented about
Silver vs. Copper price and conductivity. thats facts.
For your say: " Different cables, can and do sound different."
YES, they do.
But why?
Well I figure it out. Did you?
I will give you a hint:
It's not the snake oil that some tend to claim for the sound improvement. It is physical, calculated and proven.
So regardless of you bright and long post, there is no say. 
It's just about you "Big" vs. others "Small".


b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
Mr. hifiman5

You don't know me, but you already claim my hearing is impaired. 
Its a gall.
What about you? 
Did you check your hearing and tested good?
I doubt it.

I see you are good with poetry and rubbing snake oil over cables to make them sound better.

Never appeared to you, that those cables have some electrical properties (like resistance), related to the Amps. DF characteristics?
As so, a great deal of improvement can be achieved by methodically calculate and make such a cable, that will really fit the requirements, sound fantastic and cost less than most of the oil snake rubbed cables out there.


b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
Mr.  ditusa

If you would be kind to google Damping factor Wikipedia, you will find out that DF is a pure number (no values) of 8 ohms (resistive only) divided by the Amps Ro (internal resistance), also resistive only. I was not the one to invent that.

The way some electronic circuitry is analyzed, is by looking into the front end (inputs) or rear end (outputs and see what the source or the load seas.
As so, the speaker (load) is not a part of that analysis. If you look back, into an Amp's output stage, you see the Ro, or the DF. Now t is up to you to make a decision:
a). Would you look at the Amp's output directly, or via the speaker cables, or.
b). the same to words the speaker.
As I figured it out, the right way to go, is looking into the Amp's output, via the cables. As so, the cables are an extension of the Amp's Ro...
The Speaker (load) is not a part of that analysis. When looking into the Ro (pure resistance) so shall be the cables.
On top, if you followed my idea, the cables are thick. The resistance is very low. Anything (inductive or capacitive) connected to them in parallel is negligible. Thick cable come as singles, so no capacitance between the two, nor dielectric figures. Neither electromagnetism. 
It not only purify the audio path, and the "say" it also simplifies the calculus.
b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor

First two lines:
"In an audio system, the damping factor gives the ratio of the rated impedance of the loudspeaker to the source impedance. Only the resistive part of the loudspeaker impedance is used. The amplifier output impedance is also assumed to be totally resistive."

You and other JBL and people who said...need to be updated.
It would be a shame if die without knowing the facts!
b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
Mr. ditusa
How many times I'll need to buy the Bruckling bridge?
On my previous post to you, I stated clearly, that the speakers are not part in this analysis.
It's about what kind of Amp's output, does the speaker sees. 
And actually sees the Amp's Ro through the speaker cables.
So The speaker claim and JBL engineering are irrelevant.
Even the Wikipedia DF ling specify some facts of speaker cables resistance influence (ruing) the DF.
As so, with Tubes, The DF is so low, that it makes no difference.
But when DF increases above 150, it does. It becomes even worst when the cables get longer.
What about a guy, who just approached me on my thread:  How to select a good Speaker Cable
Who upgraded his PASS Labs 250 (DF=150) into a Devialet 120 (DF=8000).
You still think that your argument applies?
Read how a #0 awg, upgraded his sound experience, in 2018, with his PASS and a Magie III.
So please, give it a second look and try to follow.
You might very pleasantly surprised if you implement it.
b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
Mr. ditusa
We use to say the world an aunt can see, is extremely narrow.
About calculating the speakers cross section, vs DF and length:
You are milles away.
If you follow my link and read the description of a guy who pioneered my idea, you will see it makes a difference.
He is not alone. there are many more...

2’ long speaker cables: What is it, a large headphones?

b4icu's avatar
b4icu
553 posts
 
Mr.  mikemeeks
For your  Levinson 585
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no585-integrated-amplifier-specifications
With a DF of >400, at a 10ft. length cable, I would recommend you a #0 awg cable.
Make one (DIY) for under $100 and you will be thrilled from the sound improvement. 
 
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