soix,
You make a great point about the improvements I’m looking for!
To summarize my sound, it’s relaxed, laid back, very detailed, and open. Authentic to the recording as it is revealing, is the best way for me to describe it in my space. So, what am I missing, or what am I looking for? Obviously, I don’t want to lose anything I already have. For my medium size room, I have a huge left and right soundstage with decent depth. Of course, I would wish to improve what I first summarized. However, to be more specific, there’s a significant amount of air within the soundstage as described. I would like to open that up more towards me. For example, when playing a live small venue recording (e.g., Bill Evans at Town Hall), I want to fill my room more, so around me. My problem, is I don’t know if the recording has it, or is the limitation on my side? Maybe, a recommendation of a recording that provides what I’m looking for from someone who has achieved this, would benefit me and answer this question. Otherwise, my primary objective is to open my front to back soundstage and possibly improve upon what I’ve already have.
Thank you
Kenny
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mclinnguy,
Yes, I’ve played around somewhat with my interconnects and have settled where they stand today. Not much changes doing so, anyway. It seems the sum equals the whole.
I’m actually happy with power cords, and wonder if I should have spent more of that money on the interconnects? I targeted these cords specifically to the components. For example, and the most dramatic power cord upgrade was when I upgraded my 300B monoblocks to the Shun Mook ones that use original Western Electric wire. A leap of faith that actually worked big time. I have a killer cord for my Tron Seven phono, that was recommended to me by Jeff at High Water Sound, but right now I can’t remember it. My Boulder line stage uses a hard wired cord, so not replaceable.
Kenny
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pindac,
Thank you for all the info you provided about the PC Triple C cable. I have checked out your links, plus I found a couple more of interest. BTW - I may already be using the Ortofon tag wires as you refer to them. I’ve always considered using a loom of cables throughout, but my main component upgrades always got in the way due to cost. One site, Osage Audio, covers Acoustic Revive products that include single-ended interconnects of PC Triple C cable. Another well established manufacturer, Furutech, offers power cords of the same. They also offer other cords made from a variety of materials.
My main dealer, Jeff of High Water Sound, is very well respected in Audio. It was through him that gave me the sound I’ve been after. He is also a Furutech dealer, so I’m going contact him to get his thoughts about the PC Triple C Cable. My approach to this cable search was to include him anyway, after first reaching out to this community, so I have a well-rounded idea of my options. The same applies to my possible line stage upgrade.
Kenny
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audiophile1,
You have very solid points about steering me away from cables and concentrating instead on treatments and speaker placement. I’m aware of the rules that affect the soundstage, but not that simple in my case. For the most part, I have followed the manufacturer’s guidelines for proper setup of my Horning Hybrid Aristotle speakers. The bottom line is that these speakers want corners and I don’t have them in my room, so open on both sides of the wall. I’m stuck with that. My old house had the corners, but even after experimenting with toe-in, this simply pushed the soundstage forward and shrank its width, so smaller. My room front to back is only 14 feet, and my head is already 3 feet from the back wall. These speakers want the front wall to reflect and the back wall to absorb. I use a large tapestry behind me and curtains for the windows. This is not a dedicated audio space even though it looks it. I have to include my better half in the equation. With the corners missing I gain detail, but cripples the bass, so the sound loses its foundation and shrinks. I have compensated for this successfully by having custom open baffle subs built. These have changed everything and have brought my system to life.
Do you think treating the front wall will give me more of what I seek. I do have a large painting there in the middle that I’m very fond of.
Kenny
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soix - The reason for the speakers wanting corners is for bass. There are 2 bass drivers in the rear of each speaker that are ported out the back. By themselves in this setup, the speakers can normally go down to 30hz. With the addition of the custom subs everything improved including the extra detail. So, my system sounds better than it did with corners. With both my old setup and this one, I still wished for more air around me. You may be right, but the common denominator in both cases are the same cables and the Boulder line stage being in both locations. However, the amp I was using in my old setup was a CJ Premier 11a. I will definitely try moving my speakers out into the room.
ghdprentice - Thanks for the kind words. And, switching the conversation to the line stage. I’m also wondering if losing the painting on my front wall and adding some treatment for dispersion would help open it up in my direction?
tablejocky - Okay, that’s what I started to think about regarding treatments. Regarding the MR71, I can’t come up with the company anymore. However, Audio Classics (audioclassics.com) sells original cabinets.
Kenny
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Gentlemen,
I let go of my reservations about moving my speakers out into the room. The difference from prior trials, is that I pulled them out farther than ever before. I then toed them in as well, and I'm still experimenting with this. Right now the drivers are just outside of pointing at me directly. Audphile1, soix, and hifiman5, you were right and I was stubborn. This made a huge difference. I put on Stan Getz at the Cafe Au Go Go and Astrud's voice resonated into the room. The system gained energy along with the bass, also sounding truly authentic and equally relaxed. I was almost present in the room, so I'll keep tweaking the placement until I can order a drink from the cocktail waitress! - LOL...Thanks
The downside, is it will be a battle with the wife when she sees what I've done, so I'll probably have to figure out a way to more easily move my speakers back and forth.
So, now what? It seems I'm somehow stuck in the same place I was before...Upgrade the cables or the line stage? What a hobby...Ha..Ha..Ha
Kenny
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Thanks soix, I used those Herbie's gliders on a rack that I built with my daughter for her system. My speakers sit upon custom Silent Running Audio platforms for isolation with completely flat bottoms. I'll talk to my dealer Jeff to find out if it would be okay to drill into the SRAs to do the same thing. That would make it much easier to move the speakers around. I like that!
audphile1 - My Boulder L3AE line stage was built in 1990, and was one of the first Boulder Amplifiers products. It received excellent reviews at the time and still does if you look around. I picked it up as a slightly used demo from a Listen Up store back then for $1,250, but the retail was $3,500. The salesman was a friend of mine. Mark Levinson was in their heyday back then, so I had the Boulder inserted into their top system being demonstrated. I could not hear any difference betwen the Boulder and Levinson preamp. This revealed to me that the Boulder did not impart its own sound on the system. About 5 years ago, I took it to Boulder Amplifiers that was now a much different company manufacturing products so expensive that I could never afford. The guys their hovered over my L3AE and jumped on the opportunity to replace the caps. I've been using this line stage ever since.
My TW-Acustic 300B amps are made one at a time by Thomas in Germany who owns the company. I've met him a couple of times at the RMAF shows in Denver. Jeff at High Water Sound is his U.S. distributor who presents his variety of products at those shows and others (i.e., Raven Tables). The Horning Hybrid speakers that I now own, I purchased at the show after it ended. They were demoed with the 300Bs that I would get later. My 300Bs were the 3rd pair made by Thomas. Today, he's still making the model, but the cosmetics have dramatically changed to satisfy the high end market as they sell for $30K. As for my 300Bs, I will find out from Jeff how they were improved beyond their look. I hope so, as the original retail on mine were $18K and I did not pay that. I can say that they do not lack in transparency, and they are the finest piece of equipment currently in my system.
Commentaries:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/high-water-sounds-sounds-joy-tw-acustic-raven-and-cessaro-horn-acoustics
https://www.stereophile.com/content/high-water-sound-tw-acustic-cessaro-horn-acoustics-codia-acoustic-design-stein-music
Maybe, do the cables?
Kenny
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First, I'm going to zero in my speakers.
soix - Yeah, the Cross are older than many of the members here, but they must be broken in by now! LOL. I'm looking at a total budget of under $6K.
audphile1 - Now that cables at least feel the way to go, I think I'll run this by Jeff. I mean, he sold me everything but the Boulder, so should know what works best. He does have a habit of trying to blow my budget on just one thing, so invest in the best you can get with your money on-hand. I'm sure I can get him to suggest what to use for the whole package and maybe this might be a loom of cables.
ghdprentice - Ha..Ha..Ha! If I do any or all that you suggest for my wife, then I can't afford my cables. 
tablejockey - I wanted to ask you if you're after an original MR71 case or if you're looking for one of those custom wood jobs like I have?
Kenny
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audphile1 - What goes around comes around. Sometime back I contacted Jeff about replacing my speaker cables with the Audience. However, my Shilabe cartridge was aging and was starting to lose its pizazz. Again, I had to make a choice and bought the Verismo from Jeff instead. Only last night I was thinking about the Audience again after moving out my speakers. I started poking around and saw that the House of Stereo has a demo of the SX discounted. Even with my speakers moved out, I believe I can get by with 2m. Thank you for the advice about starting with the speakers and then move up the chain.
mclinnguy - No worries, all information is useful.
pindac - Looking into it, I noticed that information about the wire was somewhat sketchy…disappearing. Unfortunate.
Having Wireworld Polaris and Cardas Cross cables you all now realize that I’ve been out of the loop and poking around for years. I am basically ignorant with what’s up today, so why my post. In my mind, like a line stage for example, cables should not impart their own sound or color (grunge) onto your system. However, I see descriptions, posts, whatever, about tweaking one’s sound with these. Today, I want to hear my system as-is, so what do I choose or try, since I’ve never heard my system that way…With what I’ve been using? Am I making sense?
Kenny
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I appreciate all the positive comments from the community, and I’m not a stranger to the vast numbers of opinions in here and out there. So far, I have not spent a dime, and my system has a fresh sound with specific improvements that I was looking for. I know my room is not perfect, so what I just gained in one area slightly took away from another. Finding a balance that suits me best is what I’m doing right now and it’s free.
At this point of my life, I’m not in experimental mode, so those types of options are out. I have monoblocks, but my speaker cables are 12’ long due to previous amplification and a different imperfect room. Yea, I can cut them down and re-terminate them. My phono cable has a loose connector that I have to keep screwing with. It’s old! So, my system isn’t quite fine in all areas. If my choice was to upgrade my line stage, I would still have to deal with those cables or live with them. I have decided to deal with them, and get a fresh set. I have a fixed budget and I’m pretty sure my dealer will work with me to get there. After all that has been said and done here, this is my most comfortable option.
Thanks, everyone. Later.
Kenny
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The value of a great dealer rules!
From the start, I had my speakers not far from the walls for 2 reasons. I am dealing with a front to back distance of 14 feet, plus I felt obliged to follow the rule of thirds (triangle) as the speaker manufacturer also illustrates how to set them up; Rule of 3, toe-in, and corners. However, my speakers did not sound best this way, and no corners to be had. They sounded best closer to the front wall, with rule of 3, and a very slight bit of toe-in. So, I started this post to get more air at me, and figured that might happen by upgrading my cables or line stage that were both very old.
I sent Jeff my dealer an email seeking his input about cables and letting him know what my budget was. Within 30 minutes I got a response. You all know that my room is not perfect and so does Jeff. Jeff told me to start by moving my speakers out into the room, so kudos to those who suggested this to me. I had mentioned to Jeff that Tommy the speaker manufacturer illustrates toe-in for the setup of the speakers. Jeff added, forget that, I never set them up that way. Instead, level your tonearm and adjust the VTA, so that the headshell is lower than the bearing and then work back up as desired. Jeff, never brought up the cables or purchasing anything from him.
This advice saved me $6,000. I am now working on the VTA adjustments to maximize the added air I now have. Is my sound perfect? No, I have an imperfect room. However, my system sounds great.
Later, I can think about replacing my shaky arm cable, and get shorter speaker ones.
Kenny
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cantorgate
Yes, I had read comments regarding the service and delivery side of AI that were not favorable. I think when you deal with a one man show company it’s going to be about timing. So, where was he when you stepped in or place in line. Then there’s the person’s social nature to deal with. Even of more concern, what if he just gives up or worse!? You call and nobody’s home.
I have had a number of dealings with one man shows and have to say luck’s been on my side. This includes my primary dealer. My main components, TW-Acustic, Tron Electric, and Horning Hybrid are all one man shows. The exception is Boulder Amplifiers, and I was looking to switch to AI. Now that you brought this to my attention about AI, in retrospect, I’m wondering if I’m not a little nuts taking such leaps of faith?
I appreciate the warning, and BTW, your system is really nice!
Kenny
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pindac,
No, I don’t feel that way at all..I’ve already been through all the Typical Investigations and Purchases…And their consequences.
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