Upcoming Technics SP-10R (100th Anniversary Model)

I own a GAE and a SP10 MK3 NGS (Artisan Fidelity) and I can tell you that the new SP10R is not a new SP 10 MK3. The platter of the MK 3 has quite a bit more mass, the motor is far more powerful on the MK 3 but probably most importantly are the differences in the bearing. The new SP 10R motor is essentially the same as the G/GAE motor with a second set of stators. It will provide twice the torque of my GAE. The bearing bore and spindle diameter and spindle length are much greater on the SP 10 mk3, furthermore the MK3 has a linear power supply vs the SMPS of the SP 10R.

Please don't misunderstand me, I believe it will be awesome but it is not a MK3. I will pass on it as I'm pleased with my GAE and MK3 along with my fully sorted  Tascam 42Br R2R. Now, if I didn't have a MK3 I'd purchase the SP 10R without hesitation OR a Dohmann Helix 1 which is the only belt drive table I've heard and really really liked.

lewm: sorry about your name above, autocorrect butchered it and I didn't see it before posting.

Ok ok, I think I've beaten that poor horse enough :) back to the music.

Buy the limited edition album Greensleeves
feautring the Shoji Yokouchi Trio is beyond outstanding! You will not be sorry, you can thank me later.

Totem395:

I was surprised as well. I understand it for the G series as that table offer an incredible amount of technology and build quality for $4k, so I figure the SMPS was a way to save money in the building and the shipping of the units (weight). The SP 10R is a cost no object endeavor and it should have a linear supply. No matter who it is, no matter what tech, from Halcro to my former Acoustic Reality Ref amps (not the Thaumaturges, those have a linear supply) SMPS on supplies always seem to do a disservice to the quality of the sound.

Time will tell if Technics pulled it off with the SP 10 R because they sure didn't with the G series SMPS which is why I am replacing the SMPS with a custom regulated linear in that unit. Even with the upgrade it is still a flat out steal of a TT.

I now use it with a new phono stage. I was using the iPhono 2 which I preferred over the Pass XP25 (found it very thin sounding), ARC Ref 3, Sim Audio 610 or 810 (don't honestly recall now). It was far more fleshed out than the Pass, far quieter than the ARC and more rhythmically sound than the Sim (all while using an SBooster with an AMR MK 2 fuse for the iPhono 2). Then I came across something I hadn't heard of before, the SPL Phonos. Took me exactly one week to come to terms with how great this thing is, I purchased it. I use it exclusively with the GAE, it is phenomenal. I'll be writing a separate review soon.

Lewis:

I have never seen a situation where a high frequency noisy SMPS was superior to a well implemented linear. Doesn't mean it's not possible but I have yet to experience a SMPS powered device that didn't degrade the sound. They always inject that high frequency hash into the wall and the circuit and it manifests as a reticent midrange with an overtly bleached character. The one exception may be Berning's resonant tube based supplies.

I have no beef with anything concerning the SP 10R except the SMPS and the strong possibility that it will do what every other SMPS I've been exposed to has done, mess up the overall presentation. 

I was not mentioning torque in a way to indicate more is better :) just illuminating one of the differences between the tables. My GAE has plenty of torque, more than it needs. That table has drive and finesse, and a nasty SMPS. 

The bearing info is from observation. I viewed my MK3 and the GAE bearings. The G/GAE motor is a template. The R motor is the same except for the added set of stators. Again I was just highlighting that the R is not the MK3 reimagined, more of a MK2.7.

SMPS's are cheap and low in weight and super efficient. Everything has a cost and for SMPS's it's the sound quality. I recall years ago the great Museatex Bidat was offered with a SMPS as an upgrade to the linear. Only a few were ever built and then it was pulled, with the reason being that the SMPS was killing the magic of the Bidat.

I have replaced enough SMPS's in various pieces of gear to know personally that as a whole, they don't work in high in audio FOR MY EARS :)

Invitus005:

not sure about the GAE and it's inlet as I've not taken it apart yet for the PS transplant. I've heard many devices with those filters and they are not terribly effective at blocking all the high frequency noise and the associated harmonics. Look at it on a scope, they can be really nasty. If you like what you're hearing, I'm glad for you. I literally stopped looking at the Aurender W20 when I found out it contained a SMPS, it's a deal breaker for me unless I can rip it out like I did with my Mac Mini.

The only filters that I have found thus far to effectively combat the nastiness of SMPS's are the Blue Circle Outposts which were designed by Gilbert Young specifically for the garbage that SMPS's spew and the iFi AC iPurifier. Even my PS Audio P10/P5 and Monarchy AC Regenerators can't protect against the bad influence of a SMPS in the system.

Concerning your Devialet, you really don't have a way of comparing what it would sound like with a linear. Note that digital amp manufactures will sometimes have a reference line and they almost always use a linear power supply for the amplifier. Acoustic Reality did it with the Thaumaturges, H2O used linear power supplies in his higher end switching amps even Wyred 4 Sounds Nextgen amplifier is/was slated to make use of a linear power supply. Mark Levinson used a linear for the no. 53 switching amplifier, even the new Technics reference switching amplifier uses a huge linear power supply. These manufacturers KNOW they sound superior but most of the time "cost" wins and then comes the marketing lies to sell it all to us, the consumer. I've designed enough power supplies to know better.

I was going to purchase the Halcro DM8 that's on Agon or was just recently for sale as I've always wanted to try that piece. Found out it has a SMPS, no go.

Invictus005:

You are correct in that I have an OLED, cable box..etc all connected to the mains. The solution is that they are connected through multiple Monster power strips. When I want to really listen to my system without compromise, I press the main switch on the Monster power strip with my foot and it does a hard disconnect of those devices from the wall and yes it makes a difference. I'm so used to doing it now as a necessary evil of SMPS's I don't really think about it anymore. 

And yes, I unplug phones or iPads if they are charging before I sit down to do real listening :)

lewm: 

At the end of the day, I can plug my GAE in to the wall or one of my power regenerators and EASILY
 hear the sound of my system tank, when listeninng to my digital, R2R or my MK3. Nothing else does this except items with SMPS's. If you say you can't hear them in your system, I believe you. I have only limited experience with Bernings gear but I do recal the time I had the Berning Pre 1 in my system  and I don't recall it adversely affecting my system. It is a different technology than standard switching supplies and uses tubes instead of SS which don't tend to have the switching noise inherent in turning transistors on and off at high rates. 

I am saying that when I am listening to any source other than the GAE, the Monarchy AC regen which powers the GAE is switched off or it literally hurts the sound of my system. That is a fact. And to answer your queston, yes I have tested my lines for noise when SMPS units are plugged in and yes, it is readily apparent, the minute I unplug the device, PS3/GAE whatever, the line is quieter. I have a Tektronix 4 channel CRT bench scope that I use along with other lab gear. 

If people are ok with SMPS's in their units that is fine.  I don't want to listen to them. 

lewm:

I have ALWAYS been obssessed with power supply quality. It is after all what you are listening to arguably moreso than anything else. You are listening to a modulated rectified signal from the wall and SMPS spew a TON of garbage RF all over the place which will readily couple to capacitances all throughout your circuit/system.

The following should help the curious to understand. A little lite reading :)

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/217212/how-can-i-observe-rectifier-switching-noise

I especially like how the responder to the posters questions refers to switching noise as "the devil’s harmonica" :) LOL

lewm:

It is interesting that switching amplifers, when powered by a linear supply do not negatviely affect my system. I have owned Spectron (the 1KW) and it never affected my system. In fact about 15 or so years ago I was speaking with John Ulrich of Spectron about this very subject and he was asking for my thoughts concerning a possible move to a SMPS based architecture for his line of amplifiers. His reasoning had nothing to do with sound quality. He was concerned about the weight of the amplifiers and that is totally understandable. I believe at the time his amp was doing very well in Asian Countries and the cost of shipping them was not trivial. We talked for a while, I spelled out all the reasons why that would be a bad idea and most likey kill the sound that his amplifiers are known for. He surprisingly listened to me, which still amazes me to this day LOL.

Invictus005:

Thank you for literally making me laugh out loud!

I’ll keep it :) I have ways to mitigate what I don’t like. It really is an outstanding table.

Pani:

Awesome!!! Please let me know what you hear upon return. I have a good idea but I won't say so as not to taint the waters.

Lewm: 

The word mitigate was perhaps a poor choice. I can reduce the overall negative effects but I can not totally eradicate it unless I get rid of the supply itself. This is why I replaced the SMPS in my Mac. 

We we don't agree if you believe a SMPS can be as innocuous as a good linear power supply. 

Nah, my mk3 NGS sounds far far beyond what a mk3 in the original housing sounds like. The 10R is nice and Fremer sure seemed to like the player. I'm good with my GAE and MK3. I thought I might buy the 10R when it was announced but I honestly don't need 3 TT's.

lewm:

I kind of took a break from the boards as a couple of folks simply got on my nerves, not you :) I just saw your response and so, yes i would say we do agree :)

pani:

Thanks for the information you relayed from Mr. Berning. He is such a nice individual and very free with his time. I've had some long and interesting engineering conversations with him concening power supply design. 

bluewolf:

You are welcome, I am glad it was helpful to you. I have foot switches on multiple SMPS powered devices around my home which makes it easy to disconnect them from the wall. As you found with the blue ray player, it is not enough to simply turn them off as most gear is in a quiescent mode and will still negatively impact your system. SMPS's are the greatest hindrance to good sound that I have personally come across. I was looking at, with some interest,  an Aurender W20, that is until I found that it employed a SMPS.