Current issue of TAS has Sallie R(?) reviewing Tyler Linbrook II and Acoustic Zen Adagios. Both get glowing reviews. What I found really odd is that while the speakers are priced similarly and the reviews are by the same person in the the same issue, there is not a single sentence of comparison in either review. I find that baffling. Frankly, this diminishes my trust in the reviewer as well as the editor who should not have let this pass.
In the Tyler review she makes a few comparative remarks against her reference Spendor S8e. The gist is something like this: If you divide up the sound spectrum into parts (lower mid range, mid bass, etc) then Spendor gets more of these right. However, in toto, she finds the Tylers more magical or special or whatever the adjective is. Still, she does seem to prefer the Spendors. Make of it whatever you will.
Everyone is entitled to personal taste without being able to rationally explain it all. So I don't mind that. But I thought a serious reviewer should have compared Adagios to the other two.
I am curious what others thought of this in case you saw the reviews, and how you think the three speakers (Tyler Linbrook II, AZ Adagio, Spendor S8e) compare.
Dumboat: I have listened to, brought home and bought so many speaker systems since then I have lost count. IMHO Tyler speakers are one of the real bargains in the audio world. Build quality is superb, they sound fantastic and for the money are tough to beat. I bring home speakers to compare, but to find something I like better costs 3-4 times more and I cannot justify it..
I would appreciate it if you could name some the better speakers you compared with Ty's. Those that were bested, and those that were better but cost much more.
I have not read the review on the Linbrook IIs, so do not know what was said. I currently own the Linbrook Super Towers which is my third set of Tyler Acoustic speakers. I purchased my first set from a dealer up here in Seattle over six years ago, the Tylo monitors, then went to the Linbrook monitors. A year ago traded those for the Towers. At one time there was a dealer in Portland who also carried the Tyler line. Not wanting to speak for Ty, but I believe at one time he may have tried to distribute his products through various dealers thus the price configuration. Please do not quote me on that! I bought my first Mac C-28 and Mac 250 amp with a JBL Alpha system in 1972. I have listened to, brought home and bought so many speaker systems since then I have lost count. IMHO Tyler speakers are one of the real bargains in the audio world. Build quality is superb, they sound fantastic and for the money are tough to beat. I bring home speakers to compare, but to find something I like better costs 3-4 times more and I cannot justify it (the law of diminishing returns). Anyone thinking of buying need to give Ty's speakers a good look, he is a great guy to work with and if you buy used save that much more. His used speakers are in new condition and come with a two year waranty.
Nice contribution to the discussion Rob. I'd like to keep this thread open to those who really want to get to know the best speaker out there. With no hype. care to join in? Funny that hype doesn't get on anyones nerves. Tell an experience straightup and watch the reactions. Folks can be odd at times.
I'll admit I should not have posted that fact, it sound s like a cheap sales pitch. I wish i had not wrote that fact. Oh well tis done. I've seen worse things written in many audio reviews. Ok I can't prove it, take it as a 2 cent opinion. I felt like I was pushed to say it.
Bill, Dave, Mitch, I'm going to get to your posts in due time. Just briefly, yes, Ty might want to consider another option to the big woodmere's with the dual 10 inch (W26's) maybe with dual 8's (W22) for even better intergration with the middle MTM section. Quite a speaker the Woodmere. And yes Ty's speakers do not need the 'discounted" sales price, as opposed to the retail price which is much higher. I wish all labs would get rid of the 2 price system, list/retail. As I've said many times, the Tylers use the expensive Seas drivers at $160/each + premium Xover parts, exceptional cabinets, which the speaker sells for slightly above his costs if you add in employees and all overhead. Let me repeat Ty's cost per speaker IS HIGHER THAN ANY SPEAKER ON THE MARKET. And futhermore we all know that old saying, "you get what you pay for'. IOW you buy a Chevy Chevette you pay low and get low quality. Buy a BMW you get,,,pretty good deal. Buy a Mercedes Benz, now you are getting an even better quality than BMW for the same price. (BMW the old ones at least are too complex and high maintaince cost). ...With Tyler's the saying doesn't work. Why? Because you are getting supetior quality at a very reasonable price. IMHO "they're a steal". I'll take on all objections and refuters. If I go on it'll seem like hype, I'll stop there. btw I've known the value of Tyler's for 2 yrs now. i didn't need to read reviews/comments. Those only confirmed what I knew alreday.. Now on to my visit to New Orleans to hear the Spendor 8. Was a shop i bought a NAD/Rotel/B7W system for my wife 3 yrs ago, that system is gone now. Never take the wife along, not one that loves to show power that is....So i enter the main listening roon, 16X14, well acoustically crafted. The amp is the Audio Research(ARC) VS110, a big 8 tube mono block with the ARC preamp model 12, middle line model, tubes i believe. Yeah I realize pricey amp and pre, out of most of our budgets, but that is what was in the listening room. Along with a California Labs cdp. The Magneplanars were hooked up when we walked in, so I said sure give em a go. hummm sounded like the Magy's I heard 3 yrs ago, same, didn't care for em. I was wondering how much "fault" was due to the amp. I know the ARC sound as my friend had a big ARC VTL 200, 6 yr model, heard his amp with 2 different speakers, Mirage1 and Talon Khorus. Didn't care for either speaker. But as i say I was wondering how much was the ARC influencing the Maggies. The sound was cloudy, even more so that my friends older ARC. Next up, Spendor 8's. Heard the same sound image, just different speaker. So i had to make really que in to the Spendor in spite of the ARC's supreme coloration effects. Taking that into account, I was not impressed with the spendor. And I'll leave it at that because obviously the ARC clouded the real voicing of the Spendor. But I know even with my Jadis, the sound qualities would fall short of the Seas'. Thats as far as I'm going with the Spendor review. Sorry, go hear them for yourself. There was one other speaker, same size as Spendor, I said why not, Which is it? Was the Cabasse/Sersey at $1100/pr. Its a tweet with TOW 7 inch poly cone midwoofers below. I heard a Cabasse yrs ago(better midwoofers than this new model) at my home with the Jadis, sent it back right away to Northstar, the USA Jadis dealer yrs ago. It was a MTM, good I felt but was looking for better. This new Cabasse was OK, but still had the same sound image as the Maggies, Spendor, so now I realized just how colored the ARC really is. But determining from the Cabasse sound, i could get even a better image of the Spendor. The Cabasse would be the one I'd take home, and not based on prices. Naggies/ $1800, Spendor/$3100, Cabasse/$1100. It was the better of the 3. The differnces were not major, as the ARC ...or was it the CALIFORNIA AUDIO cdp. Yep I bet that was it. I'm sure of it. The Cal Lab cdp totally polluted the amp and the 3 speakers. Though the ARC is not off the hook, it has to share some of the coloration. So the Cla Lab WITH the Arc both togther did not allow any of the 3 speakers to gives it true voice. However I knwo the seas would overcome that coloration much better than all 3, with the cabasse comming in a distant second. I'd like to haer all 3 with the Jadis and my tube cdp for no significant coloration review. But that is not to be. You'll have to do your own auditions. Sure I did not hear the Spendor in "ideal" conitions, but its what was avaliable. That is my straight up review. Just an opinion, as is every other in the Absolute Sound.
I gave up on reading reviews a long time ago as reviews are flawed and so are the reviewers, not to mention their equipment and room conditions. If you could see what I have seen you would wonder how some reviewers get to be reviewers at all. I know my room is compromised but I never thought a reviewers room would be. That goes for with constantly changing gear, poor electric, etc.
So you can read all the reviews you want but you still need to hear a component in your system for yourself and forget what the reviewer says.
Bartokfan: my statement, "People no longer need to see the artificially bumped up "list" price to feel good about their purchase of Tyler speakers," is intended to be interpreted as Drseid has, in that the Tyler speakers have proven themselves to be good not only at their price points, but in absolute terms against the current competition. Therefore, the price should be the price and Tyler doesn't need the added psychological component of the higher "list" price to make people think they are buying a much more expensive speaker. I have not heard the System II and cannot comment on the integration between midrange and midbass, or potential problems in that area as discussed in the TAS review. Linbrook Signature (Monitor or System) owners seem to have no problems in that area, and almost universally rave about those speakers. In addition they appear very reasonably priced given the quality of drivers, crossover components and box. On that basis, I suggested maybe one of the Signature speakers would be better for a first time Tyler buyer to listen to, and for a first time Tyler TAS review. As always, room integration and matching components play a large role in the sound of a speaker so I am curious when a reviewer points out a "flaw" and does not verify the observation with a different room set-up or different components (sometimes they do, but not always). However, I am not totally surprised with her observation since I worked with a relatively high end 3-way speaker system for years and couldn't get that lower midrange/upper mid-bass frequency to sound right, so I finally gave up and went in a different direction.
First off, as to Spendor... I love Tyler speakers, but actually I think Spendors tend to appeal to many of the same qualities Tyler owners crave. I was *very* impressed with the Spendors I heard earlier this year. If Sallie prefers the 8se, I can definitely see where she is comming from (even if I don't agree with her) as the Spendor sound is quite addictive IMO.
As for the Adagios, I too would have liked to see a comparison to the Linbrook System II, because I think the speakers rated about equally to my ears when I recently heard the Adagios (very impressive speakers, BTW). As they shared many of the same qualities I enjoy, an outside opinion would have been interesting to read.
As to the Tyler pricing... I agree the "list pricing" should probably be deleted as the speakers are not even sold retail as was mentioned. I, howver, believe the "list prices" are in many cases far *below* what the speakers would sell for at retail (the driver and crossover component costs alone could merit much higher list prices based on normal markups). That said, the price is the price... It probably would be better just to list the actual selling price to consumers as opposed to all of the pricing confusion on the brand. Ty never claimed to be the best Marketer, but I can say that the speakers have a way of selling themselves through their sound quality and owner word of mouth. As such, I would say he has spent his time more wisely focusing on design, sound and build quality. Not a bad tradeoff if you ask me. :-)
Bartokfan: ...btw I see the Spendor is british. Sorry I don't care for brit sound. But I'll give them a fair and unbias hearing tomorrow.
How funny that in the same sentence you first state your bias and then promise to be unbiased. :)
Anyway, I shall look forward to your review of Spendor S8e. If you are going to a dealership and see this message in time, also try to listen to Spendor SP1/2e, that is the similarly priced model in the "classic" line that some like better.
i have talked to TY many times and told him he needs a speaker in the $8000.00 price. this would fill in the void between the floor standing linbrook signature and the woodmere. i suggested a smaller version of the woodmere that would have the same balance look in a smaller cabinet with two 8 in. seas woofers. there is to much price difference between the linbrook signature and the woodmere. the $8000.00 price is attractive especially for someone in the $10,000.00 price range but does not have room for the size of the woodmere. i suggested that he use the cabinet design of the woodmere. any input from anyone?? i currently own woodmere's and linbrook sig. monitors on ty stands. i think that it would have been better to see a d'apolitto design speaker from ty reviewed. they seem to integrate well in rooms and sound great when properly set up. its interesting that ROBERT E. GREENE is a fan of TY'S speakers especially the woodmere's when he heard them at the 2005 THE SHOW. it was good at least to see ty's speakers reviewed without having a "advertising connection"
Mitch2 , not sure what you maen about the last line, "people no longer....their purchase of tyler soeakers". I gather what you are saying is that the System2's the 3 way, W22/W18/T25 is abit over priced at $3600/direct from Ty price.(Ty has no retail outlet price, so as you say the list price means nothing, and not sure why list is mentione don any audio product) Then I gather you feel his SIG System, a MTM with bass module priced at $4800 is more bang for your buck and is the better deal/the way to go. Am I redaing you correctlY/ But even so, i'm not interested in the much larger MTM+ dual 8's. Its way too much for my tube amp and how i like my music imaged. I don't care for big sound. The SYSTEM 2's (W22/W18/T25 is very competitive in price for that midsize speaker. Look at Thiels 3 ways, at like $3500, and Spendor 8ce 2 way at $3100. 2 drivers at $3100. Both can be had used on the cheap. try to find a tyler used on the cheap. You are in for a very long wait :-) btw I see the Spendor is british. Sorry I don't care for brit sound. But I'll give them a fair and unbias hearing tomorrow.
Joeabrams: Your question assumes that Sallie had both the Tyler and Acoustic Zen speakers in her listening room at the same time, which may or may not be the case. Even though the two reviews appear in the same issue, they may have been written months apart. If that's the case, then it's a reasonable choice not to compare speaker "A" to your _memory_ of speaker "B."
Fair enough re Tylers, although many reviewers do include a comment or two from memory (after all, it is not meant to be a full blown A/B comparison, it is mainly a review of one speaker). Spendors are her reference speakers, she might be expected to have a good memory of their sound. Anyway, I can't imagine a reviewer would have nothing else to compare Adagios with. But as I said, I did read the review in hurry. Not a big deal, just struck me as odd and a spoor a reflection othe editor as the reviewer herself.
Tvad: Is anyone going to make a purchase decision based solely on a review in TAS? Not likely. It seems to me readers routinely over-analyze reviews and reviewers' agendas.
I don't know if anyone purchases based solely on one review, but it is one source of information and opinions.
I found it interesting TAS chose to review the Linbrook System II and not the heart of Tyler's lineup, the Linbrook Signature Monitor or the Linbrook Signature System, which are still reasonably priced and by reports from others do not have the "compromised lower middle range and midbass" discussed in the TAS review. From her glowing review of the Adagio, it is probably better for Tyler a comparison was not made. However, IMO Tyler needs to look at their pricing scheme which is getting long in the tooth. The System II is a $3,600 speaker, not a $4,800 speaker since they are sold factory direct and nobody sells them for the pseudo "list" price. The Linbrook Signature System is more representative of a $4,800 speaker, which is what it sells for new/factory direct. People no longer need to see the artificially bumped up "list" price to feel good about their purchase of Tyler speakers.
No you were spot on about the pecularity of Sallie not bringing up the 'reference' spendors and the '2nd place reference" the Tylers, in her "stunning" impression of the Zen. btw I only made it through the place where she starts into her praise for the Zen. I felt I heard that somewhere before on another spaeker...same issue...same author. As I say I did respect her comments on the Tyler, at times. As I;m a fan of the Seas', but open minded, I felt no need to read through a review on a speaker i have no intentions of buying and no doubt will never hear for myself.
I amde an attempt to read the article where TAS editors/writers get together and talk discuss, just what is absolute sound, does it exsist, is it for real. Got rather bored quickly and made little sesne out of what they were attempting to say. I'm sure they are on the same page though. I know I would not be welcomed in their circle, neither would I want to join in.
I decided to start an independent thread on these particular issues (TAS reviews, the Adagio review, etc), so people who are not following the other thread may also share their thoughts and experience.
BTW, while I am sure that advertising affects a magazine's slant, it may well be that Sallie personally is fond of that one Spendor model. Personal likes and dislikes are fine and have their place, so I a ok with that as long as everything else added up.
I still found it odd that no mention of either Tylers or her "reference" Spendors was made in the Adagio review. I had to read it fast (Wife waiting by the door!) so could have missed a breezy mention.
However, as they say, never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidiity or incompetence...
I'm hoping to hear a(not sure which model) tomorrow. So those who are about to click the "pay now' link to the Spendor may want to wait. AK as I mentioned on your post earlier over on the Tyler topic, I'm with you on this one. Sally is following the same pattern as all "pro" audio reviewers. make the review as nice and tempting as possible, but never give anything a perfect score, be a bit vague at times also. But never outoutright compare, you can jepordize potential ad contracts. And if they don't advertize with us (as Tyler has not and never will, Ty doesn't need to) then you are free to amke mention of a line that does da with us.....this is pretty much how these reviews go, which is why I avoid redaing anything in the mags. The Tyler review was an exception. btw I did not see any spendor ads in Absolute Sounds latest issue, but suspect they have a contract in the past. can anyone tell me if spendor is in TAS witha n ad from recent issues. Greatly appreciated if you would.
Your question assumes that Sallie had both the Tyler and Acoustic Zen speakers in her listening room at the same time, which may or may not be the case. Even though the two reviews appear in the same issue, they may have been written months apart. If that's the case, then it's a reasonable choice not to compare speaker "A" to your _memory_ of speaker "B." ATB, Joe
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