Mel,
You obviously didn't read my post, that's exactly the sentiment I expressed,
if all about individual preference. I don't see how you could have read it any
otherway. There's no logical way it could be interpreted as anti SS
amplifiers. Reread if you don't mind. |
Hi Michaelkingdom,
Keep in mind that you may just simply prefer SS amplifiers as some others
do. Don't forget that the particular speaker in use plays a major role
regarding amplifier compatibility. My experiences are very different from
your own, I found well designed tube amplifiers to be as transparent, clear
and resolved as any transistor amp. The advantage I discovered with tubes
is a purity, natrualness and realism that the transistors couldn't equal.
Tubes have the tonal vibrancy and truthfulness that were closer(not
identical) to the real thing for me. With the many transistor amps I've heard
I was always keenly ware the sound is reproduced and a bit more artificial
("canned"). The tubes were more convincing of reality that I
consistently hear with live instruments and vocalists.
As with what Islandmandan said, the SET amps took the tube convincing
realism to an even higher level, I fully understand what Dan is presently
appreciating. The point is each of us will have differences in hearing
perspectives and interpretation. Some will relate to my personal listening
experiences and quite naturally others will not.
The suggestions given here to try various types of signal and power tubes
is wise advice. You can substantially change a amplifier's character and
sound by doing this.
If SS amplifiers continue to impress you more tht means you've found your
direction and that's the route for you.
Best of Luck, |
Melbguy1,
The OP specifically made a comment and observation of tube vs SS amplifiers and people are simply responding just as you are doing. To me this isn't a battleground and your preference for a SS amplifier is understood and fine, that's why both types are available . What you hear and are drawn to is different from what attracts me. If you're as satisfied with your amp as I'm with mine, you have found pure contentment. If you honestly believe that the SS amps offer equally rich and holographic sound with better inner detail than tube amps we'll just very respectfully disagree.
Best Regards,
Charles, |
Wolf,
Very funny post , tube's life like imaging can be a potential hazzard. Be careful and pay attention to those virtual exit signs. |
Michaelkingdom,
You have the right approach, just continue to listen to a variety of amps. If
SS suits you better, go for it. There's definitely no right or wrong with either
type of amplifier.
Mel, your response is bewildering to me. I don't understand the persecution
complex and the defensiveness, come on we're just discussing audio. It
shouldn't have to be so emotional and serious to get you this upset. I
sincerely appreciate your comments and different opinions.
Charles, |
Hi Melguy1,
I have no desire for this thread to become another "us vs them" scenario, there are many in the archives as it is . I have no interest in moderating comments either. Here's the deal, you find SS amplifiers better suited to your needs and objectives, who can argue with your choice?
I through my personal audio evolution have conclude that tube amplifiers are superior in providing what's most important to me.
We both have reached our own decisions based on what we have heard, it's really that simple. I haven't nor will I say anything negative or condescending about your choices, there's no reason to do so.
I don't know why you feel the need to make derogatory and dismissive comments about the people who have expressed a preference for tube amplifiers ("midf"i, you really think so?). You say guys like you with "serious gear" get talked down. Wht mkes your gear "serious" relative to other's systems here? Who's "talking you down? Your opinion is here to be read and responded to like all the rest of us.
Mel you're actually the one who has changed the tone of this thread and reacted defensively. Personally I respect your audio component choices and welcome your perspective. I hope you respect my audio choices even though they differ from your own.
Charles, |
Davide256,
" there is no right or wrong here" is of course true and I feel
those participating on this thread would agree. People stating their
preference for tube amplifiers isn't a condemnation of SS amps, this seems
so evident to me. How many times does one have to acknowledge that it's
merely personal taste and preference? I don't understand the heightened
sensitivity and why SS owners feel their choice is questioned. David that's
a general comment and not directed at you.
Everything Frogman said concerning tube amps could come unchanged
from my mouth word for word. If this thread had been dominated with more
'pro' SS owners I'd have no problem with that at all, I just know what is a
better fit for me. Im certain that SS amp owners clearly outnumber the tube
amp crowd, so obviously many people are quite satisfied with the sound of
transistor amps.
Tubegroover I've posted numerous times about music topics (profound
jazz adoration but getting more into some classical also).
Frogman (a musician) has written many excellent and introspective
comments of various music genres and I always enjoy and learn something
by reading them. He may love jazz as much as I do (smile) but his
advantge, he can also play it (wish I could). Well at least I can partake in the
live jazz venues where I live and I do frequently. That has trained my ears
substantially over the years (having a piano in our home is also a plus).
Charles, |
Melbguy1,
It's evident that you're experiencing some obvious stress and tough times in your life presently. I really hope your circumstances are properly addressed and things improve and you can resolve your personal crisis.
Sincerely,
Charles, |
Ralph, Frogman and Pryso,
Goods points about differences in general with tubes and transistors. I
mentioned in an earlier post the relative artificial sound of some SS amps.
The over emphasized image outlined sharpness and precision along with
the ultra black/silent backgtound just doesn't sound natural to me. With live
music there is more blending and mixture of the different tones and
overtones which gives a more rounded sound that's very dimensional and
full rather than a razor sharp focus and 2 dimensional leaness(hifi). I
understand that some consider this a desirable audio attribute but it comes
off as a contrived, less realistic presentation It deviates from what you'd
actually hear with live musicians. Live acoustic instruments are so rich,
colorful and very vibrant, no way would I want to diminished this vital
musical information. To each their own as long as you're happy. |
Discussing topics like this one should be informative and sharing various viewpoints but hopefully stay fun and lighthearted. Things can fall apart rapidly once ccomments turn toward the personal direction. Mel I'd assume that Wolf probably thought you were just kidding around given the sarcasm of earlier exchanges, I sure hope that was the case. I can't believe anyone would find the recent loss of your Grandmother something to kid about.
Charles, |
Sorry meant grandfather not grandmother. |
Mel,
I have no idea what's in someone else's mind/heart so I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. You and your family have my sympathy.
Charles, |
I also received a PM from Mel he didn't mention the recent passing of his grandfather however. The gist of it was he felt me and my "tube mates" on this thread were picking on him. At that point I thought this was becoming too personal and frankly unnecessary. I just want to express my opinions and read those of other participants. The audio topics are fun but overall not important. For the final time, buy what ever type of audio component you enjoy most and then call it a day.
Charles, |
I'll respectfully disagree with Mapman 's assertion that modern implementation of NFB has been improved. When I hear amplifiers that utilize generous levels of NFB it's very apparent in that there's an artificial character quality of the sound. I just don't hear the same naturalness or realism of instruments and human voice. Simple tube circuits that omit or use minimal NFB are much better sounding and more convincing of reality.
I recognize that this is just my observation based on listening to many different amplifiers over the years. Mapman I certainly appreciate your satisfaction with your current class D amplifier and congratulations on your happiness with them. I acknowledge that we just hear things differently and may in addition have very dissimilar listening priorities.
I haven't come across a SS or class D amp that can approach what the well implemented no NFB tube power amps are capable of. For sure I'm in a minority as there are far more owners of SS amps compared to tube.
Charles, |
Hi Mapman,
I have no doubt that the Bel Canto is a quite fine solution that fits your needs and I meant no criticism in any way. Ralph made certain points about the effects and consequences NFB that ring true in my listening endeavors and so it caught my attention. I of course agree with you in that there's inherent compromise with any amplifier choice. For what I seek and place the highest priority on, the simpler lower power amps minus the NFB get me the closest to that sound.
Charles, |
Al,
True and this is why Ralph's explanation struck a chord with me. The irony is that although tube amplifiers in some cases have more "audible" noise, once the music plays you hear 'more' musical nuance and low level information than with the 'quieter' amplifier. On the surface this seems counterintuitive yet it's the reality I've heard.
Charles, |
Shigeki Yamamoto who is known for his line of SET amplifiers is very adamant about the adverse sonic repercussions of NFB. Even with his DAC design he eschewed OP- amps due to their copious levels of NFB and instead opted to build a discreet analog output circuit free of NFB same as his SET amplifiers. Another example of circuit and not limited to power amplifiers.
I'd like to hear from component designers/builders who believe in the advantages of NFB given its wide use and acceptance. I'm sure they feel ther are sonic benefits or they wouldn't use it. I wonder what's their opinion of the human hearing principle and if they accept the premise.
Charles, |
+1 Frogman.
Another observation with cynical replies like Wc65 mustang's, there's hardly any meaningful followup or contribution . Just an opportunity to get in a smarmy remark that's supposedly witty (but isn't). If there's more to say, lets hear it. I don't always agree with Ralph (or anyone) but I certainly respect his knowledge and contributions.
Charles, |
