Tube vs Solid State Amp measured with REW


I have both a tube amp (Masterworks SET 300b) and a solid state amp (Arcam A32), with Klipsch Forte 4 speakers. The Masterworks sounds much better; more clear, very lifelike. But when I measure with REW the frequency response and THD are about the same (albeit with some variations over the range). Is there any other parameter that causes one amp to sound better than the other, that doesn't show up on the measurements?

ken57

That’s an interesting question. You probably will get a different perspective if you ask this on ASR website where people are more attuned to measurement than here on Audiogon. I certainly don’t have the answer. I usually use both my ears and measurements to differentiate between gears. My ears being the ultimate arbiter. I too believe in science by trade. 

When we hear a sound we hear and recognize a quality ... This quality is related to some physical invariant of the vibrating sound source ...and we localize this quality in space ...
 
The medium around it and the waves coming from it they convey an image of this invariant ,which is immediately meaningful for us, invariant we perceive in the vibrating sound source through the medium and with the waves as a living map of the quality which is the real territory...
 
But the medium, the waves, the Fourier linear map of the territory, are not the vibrating sound source invariant we interpreted as a quality, they are an image of it , the informative quality is not in the electrical measures nor in the medium or in the waves , it is perceived through them and with them but is not them ...
 
If i tap a fruit, the quality ripeness is not in the Fourier map which is an image of some physical invariant of the vibrating sound source ( the fruit )
 
Then it is ridiculous to confuse a perceived quality with a set of electrical measures , or even with a Fourier map...Human hearing live in his own time domain by evolutive constraint , we must had learn speech perception for example for survival and then the ear/brain had to learn how to beat the Fourier limit between frequencies and time almost 13 times in some case in qualitative information retrieval ....
 
As we learned in the ecological theory of perception by Gibson, the brain does not compute the qualities (affordance) of the environment he directly use them , he participate and anticipate ...It is the same for hearing... The brain does not compute the timbre characteristics or the spatial qualities and distance of the various sound sources as a computer must do; the brain perceive difference in time and frequencies as perceived qualities immediately meaningful ...
 
Then electrical measures dont inform us about sound qualities but about some qualities of the design ...There is many other parameters in a design connected in some room to other devices and the most important parameter will be the hearing individual ...
 
Once this is said, a good designer could replicate a soundfield created by tubes with a S.S. design ... Bob Carver did it ... But this craftmanship go well beyond few basic electrical measures  defined as the  specs of an amplifier ...
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Thanks. I'm also a physicist (well, engineering physics actually). REW gives not just THD but also the odd and even harmonics. But I still can't see what makes the tube amp sound better after this measurement (btw its Mastersound not Masterworks, from Italy). The measured distortion also includes the speakers.

THD has been published for amps since I was in college 50 years ago.  Probably before then but I wasn't looking.  It means nothing.  It was always published because if a manufacturer didn't publish it, then the "educated buyer" would think their amps were inferior.  Perhaps it was an indicator of quality of build, but I'm sure there was no agency checking for honesty in their ads.  

You hit the nail on the head with your description of the Masterworks, "sounds much better; more clear, very lifelike".  that is what matters.  Maybe someday someone will figure out what to measure to improve on those qualities but it isn't THD.   But my Pioneer was .05% thd.  LOL.

BTW, I'm a physicist.  I believe in science.  I know what to meansure for many many qualities, but not for good sound.  But I know it when I hear it and I know people who can design amps that produce it.

Jerry

Your ears is the standard. Do not believe any tools as till now there is not such tools can tell you which is better or worse.